onplane

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  1. David, if you are going to all that effort, you might as well bring two terminals out as well. This way you could at some time in the future, bi-amp the 610's. Since the 610's come with no controls, why not provide some? Regards, Jerry
  2. In addition to my 3a's, I own a set of TSW 610's. The voice of these speaker systems is totally different. While the 3a's are bass heavy and laid back, the 610's are much, much, much brighter. There is no question those titanium domes put out far more SPL than the 3a domes. Last December when my 30 year old amp died, I bought a new amp that allowed for extremely easy bi-amping. In short, with the remote, I can vary power sent to each half of the 610's. (Now to do this required that I bring out a separate terminal/wire to separate the woofers from the other drivers. The 610's don't come with that three terminal system found in the older AR's. They also don't come with those "self-destruct" pots.) So now I can balance the 610's to my liking (my amp has digital volume controls so getting equal or unequal voltage to each side is very simple ... oops forgot to mention, all 4 amps are in a single box). So how do I balance? What's most pleasurable to me is the mids/tweeter amp slightly behind the woofer amp. Again that's what I like in my room, on my set of 610's, listening to music I like. Obviously, YMMV. Now, the "elephant in the room" is which system sounds better? Well, that is not a simple question to answer. Each system has it advantages and disadvantages. If you want raw SPL, the 610's will run rings around the 3a's. No question power was a design consideration in the 610's. Unfortunately, that means nothing to me! Both systems can played far louder in their respective rooms than I would find comfortable. Another huge difference is sound dispersion. Here the 3a's really shine. That is, when you get a little ways off axis on the 610's, high frequencies really drop off and it's quite noticable. My den is quite small and I am forced to separate the speakers way too much. The 610's sounded awful in that room, yet the 3a's work just fine. In my large family room, the 610's are positioned mid wall and separated the recommended distance vs the listening position. In this room, the 610's with their focused mid frequencies sound great. In summary, I like both systems and each performs well in the rooms they currently reside. In terms of voicing, via bi-amping both systems, I find I adjust as follows: 1. 3a - I always prefer the mid/tweeter amp ahead of the woofer amp (i.e. more voltage to mids/tweeters than to woofers) 2. 610 - just the reverse, more voltage to woofers than to mids/tweeters Once the systems are adjusted as above, it's remarkable how similar they sound. There are minor differences, however, such as the 610's still exhibit superior high frequencies while the 3a's do a better job on the very lowest frequencies. Again, let me emphasize, these differences are very, very minor and require listening very closely with multiple recordings. Regards, Jerry
  3. Rich, that is a very interesting report on your measurements. As I recall the A-25 has a 10 inch woofer vs an 8 inch in the AR-4x. So what is going on here? Do we get a "faster" bass roll off in the aperiodic design similar to the 24db per octave we see in vented systems?
  4. Steve, do you know whatever happened to the aperiodic design? From what I've read, aperiodic is essentially acoustic suspension with some "tweaking". In short, the vent is used for pressure relief NOT for sound augmentation as in ported or reflex. I also understand that it is "tricky" getting the vent stuffed correctly. Regards, Jerry
  5. In the review of the A-25, there are several mentions of AR products. I guess at the time of this review, AR was the standard against which everything was compared. http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaco-25-loudspeaker#KOozMceFiJCv3uCu.97 Anyone know whatever happened to the "aperiodic" design? Today most speaker systems are ported, but there are a number of sealed bookshelf systems. Further, some of the best subs around are sealed boxes. I can't remember ever seeing a modern aperiodic system. Regards, Jerry
  6. Below is a link to the afore mentioned J. Gordon Holt review of the A-25: http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaco-25-loudspeaker#KOozMceFiJCv3uCu.97 Regards, Jerry
  7. As Carl mentioned, the ability to listen to the acoustic suspension woofers by themselves was considered a big deal back when the AR's were first introduced. Acoustic suspension WAS the big technology innovation ... deep bass with extremely low distortion from a small box! Fast forward 50 years and those three terminals can be used for bi-amping with common ground amps. That is, we "split the load". One amp is dedicated to the acoustic suspension woofers and another amp is dedicated to the mids/tweeters. Further, if both amps are integrated (with volume controls), you gain control over the speaker's voice far better than with those controls on the back of the speaker. Today, almost all high quality speakers come from the manufacturers pre-wired for bi-amping, so once again, AR was way, way ahead of its time. Regards, Jerry
  8. Steve thanks for starting such an interesting topic and Tom thanks for your terrific historical perspective. I happen to own two AR three-ways, my 3a with the dome mid and my TSW-610 with a 6.5 inch cone mid. Prior to bi-amping the TSW sounded orders of magnitude brighter than the more "muffled sounding" 3a. With bi-amping and tone controls, I can make them sound pretty much alike except for dispersion! Here the 3a dominates with distinction. My TSW's are in a large room (40 x 20) and I listen in a normal position. Result is excellent sound and good separation. My AR-3a's are in my den, a much smaller room. Here the speaker's are NOT normally positioned. Because of the room and the "stuff" in it, the speaker's are way, way too far apart and I sit too close. When I tried the TSW's in this position, the separation was so much that you got the impression of a "hole" in the middle. The 3a's with their superior dispersion masked this problem such that separation sounds both normal and pleasing. Seriously doubt AR designed these speakers with this problem in mind, but the dome mid just seems to fill with sound space that the cone mid cannot equal. Regards, Jerry
  9. New AR-4x's either 1967 or 1968. Sold in 1969. New AR-3a's 1969 and still have. Bi-amped approximately 8 years ago and still bi-amped today. New TSW-610's I believe around 1989/1990 and still have. Bi-amped 2016.
  10. Jeff, I just tuned in WRUR and they were playing ... country! I guess they really do have a "wide variety". My favorite FM station is WGMC - 90.1 as they play easily 90% jazz. Now they also stream, but recently had a problem with all Android devices. To be honest though none of the FM stations can compete with the sound quality of Dish's satellite signals. Then with Dish I get to choose from 4 pure jazz channels, plus another 4 "near jazz" and everything is totally commercial free. Regards, Jerry
  11. Kent, like you jazz is my clear favorite. I enjoy the 2 Dish CD quality jazz channels plus the 2 Sirius channels broadcast on Dish that are strictly jazz. The Sirius channels are not the same stream as the 'compressed' signal directed to car radios. The Dish CD channels are strictly music while the Sirius Channels will on occasion have DJ's introducing the artists and tracks. All of these sources are commercial free. Regards, Jerry
  12. It appears that your xover board on the second speaker is screwed in place. I mean I think I see screws. Now, your first board appears to have a scew hole, but no screw. I'd really be tempted to screw these boards in place and then silicone them shut on the outside. If you are going to have a friend solder the wires back together, you might consider bringing wires through the back so that you have the option to bi-amp. Remember, if you chose to power with a single amp, you still can. Without bringing those wires outside, however, you cannot bi-amp without opening the speakers up again. Regards, Jerry
  13. Looks pretty close to the drawing I posted. I don't see any major issues. Now is the board loose? If so you might be able to screw it down. Fastening it in place prior to sealing would be a good way to insure a long term solution. Regards, Jerry
  14. OK, you asked about amps and I'm going to provide probably the most controversial solution. Before I get to that, the way that I would adhere and seal that input panel would be to use silicone. Silicone is quite strong plus it also is a terrific sealant. As for amps, I'd recommend the Sherwood RX-5502 (see datasheet). It's what I use on my AR TSW-610's (see pic). What makes this controversial is that the Sherwood has 4 full range amps rated 100 wpc @ 4 ohms in one box! In short, I bi-amp. I dedicate the Main amp to the woofers and the Room2 amp to the mids/tweeters. Advantage of this scheme is you now get some control over the speaker's voice, by varying the power sent to each half. Neither your 58's nor my 610's come with any of those AR pots to give us "voice" control. By bi-amping, however, you gain more control than you'd ever get with pots (which corrode and cause havoc down the road). So how would you bi-amp your 58's? Well, I've attached two pics showing how. Basically you cut the wire from the low pass coil to the + speaker terminal and then solder a new RED wire to that coil. Drill a very small hole through the cabinet and pass this new wire through. Naturally caulk or silicone both inside and out this hole to prevent air leaks. You now have three terminals and that's all the Sherwood unit needs. I run twin lead to the two + terminals and then a Black 12 gauge wire to the Black terminals on both the Sherwood and the AR's. Like I said, this is controversial, but remember to return your speakers to the single amp configuration is simple. All you do is connect that new RED wire to the RED binding post and you are back to the original configuration. (I've tested this and confirm that it works.) Regards, Jerry Sherwood-RX-5502-datasheet.pdf
  15. Actually the boat came from the factory with a German sound system and for the life of me, I can't remember the name. In any event, I never use it. Instead, I have a 2.1 system in the master stateroom that I listen to all of the time. It's not even mid fi, but I can't turn the volume up because of my neighbors at the yacht club. Boats aren't insulated with sound absorbing materials like houses. All my boating neighbors go to bed early and get up early .... boooring! On the other hand, My neighbors are quiet and never wake me when they get up. I wish I could say the same about the stupid fishermen. Now the commercial fishermen across the river start revving their engines around 6:00am! By 6:20 they head out ... fishing! Idiots!