Jump to content
The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About onplane

  • Rank
    Advanced Member

Recent Profile Visitors

4,346 profile views
  1. Well, I agree with you, GD. In small to mid-sized rooms, you'll get some 'room gain' that coupled with the shallower roll-off slope, will get you a low frequency bass extension. When you elevate, you give away that room gain and will never hear those lowest notes due to the roll-off in frequency response. In short, elevation results in a low end response almost identical to the speaker's quasi-anechoic frequency response. Regards, Jerry
  2. Driving these AR3a speakers

    RAY, not vintage, but the Sherwood RX-5502 (see datasheet attached) would handle 4 AR-3a's. Reason for this is this unit has 4 full range amps (i.e. 2 stereo amps) in a single box. Each amp is rated 100 wpc at 4 ohms. Beauty of this scheme is you get two independent volume controls so you can balance the two set of speakers to get similar volume in spite of room placement. With a single amp, one speaker set with dominant the other just due to its position in your room. Regards, Jerry Sherwood-RX-5502-datasheet.pdf
  3. Craig, that pic is confusing, because the brown zip cord is the Red connections on two independent amps in the same box!! The doubled up zip on the Black post goes to any black connection on this amp. Going back a year I wrote about this amp on this board: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9108-cheap-charlie-amp-solution-for-those-power-hungry-ars/&tab=comments#comment-110230 This amp is highly unusual in that it has 4 full range, 100 wpc @ 4 ohms amps in a single box. So in this case AR TSW-610's, one amp powers the woofers (main amp) and the remote amp powers the mids/tweeters. Each amp has it's own digital volume control, so returning to 'factory' voice is as simple as having both amps at exactly the same digital volume setting. I rarely do this, however, as these speakers in my room (wood paneling) are just way too bright. I almost always set the woofer amp ahead of the mid/tweeter amp. Sometimes, depending upon source, I will change this and that is done with remote volume clicks. Below is the datasheet for the amp. Now, on my 3a's the wiring is different, because even though I have the same three terminal, I have two completely separate amps. In that case, I run two sets of lamp cord to each speaker with the Black leads (common ground) tied together and connected to the negative post. Now on the 3a's, I always, always, always run the mid/tweeter amp ahead of the woofer amp. Regards, Jerry Sherwood-RX-5502-datasheet.pdf
  4. It is what is know as "passive bi-amping". That is, a separate amp for mids/tweeters and another totally independent amp for the woofers. Further, the "passive" indicates that the passive xovers are in place and continue to select/deselect frequencies for the three drivers. Thus via the separate volume controls, we get voice control that far exceeds what could be obtained with pots. The pic shows a line out for the woofer only xover connection. That connection no longer connects inside the box to the red terminal. The red terminal now connects strictly to the mid and tweeter. Black terminal, of course, is the return line for both. My purpose in showing the pic was NOT to suggest going this way, but to show that bringing out terminals can be done in an inexpensive way. The better way to passive bi-amp would be to bring out a two separate terminals for the woofer. Advantage of doing this is you could bi-amp with non-common ground amps (i.e. tube amps, etc.). Using just three terminals, like I do, limits you to strictly common ground amps (which is all I have) that are the same polarity. Regards, Jerry
  5. I doubt you'll get much for your old corroded pots. I can guarantee you'll degrade sound if you don't seal the holes well, so ... Anyhow, just wanted to share another idea with you. Since you no longer have original woofers and since balancing sound with your infinity woofers will be a problem, I strongly recommend you consider bi-amping. That is, one amp dedicated to powering the infinity woofers and another amp for the mids/tweeters. You then balance sound via the independent volume controls on the amps. Notice that the amps do NOT have to be identical. You can use a much smaller amp on the mids/tweeters. I have a 140 wpc amp on my woofers and an old 35 wpc amp (that was collecting dust in my basement) driving the mids/tweeters. Now, I bi-amp using just the three terminals AR provided, but the correct way to do this would be to separate the xovers and bring out a 4th terminal. This does not have to be an expensive proposition. You could simply bring out a wire - see example below. Regards, Jerry
  6. Roy's recommendations are, as always, spot on. My question is why go through all of the work to physically remove the pots? What harm are they doing? In my 3a's, the mid pot is wired to the "top of the pot" so that the resistance is still there to keep xover frequencies correct. The tweeter pot is totally by passed to gain an addition 1db in tweeter output. That 1db isn't much, but it helps. My real point, however, is the pots are physically in place. I see zero advantage to creating holes which then must be properly sealed. Regards, Jerry
  7. AR-3a vs. Original Large Advent

    Steve, your observations are spot on! Below is an example of that original AR frequency response graph. My 3a's still sound fairly decent (I am the original owner), and I did NOT spend a fortune restoring. I by passed both pots, and added a padding resistor to the mid to drop it further behind the woofer. Finally, I bi-amp using just the 3 terminals AR provided. Then to bring everything back into balance, I simply provide more voltage to the mids/tweeters via the volume control on their dedicated amp. In short, I have moved "voice control" from those pots behind the speakers to the volume controls on my amps. Further, on my latest amp the volume controls exist on a single remote, so altering voice is now a matter of remote clicks. This was done on my 3a's ten years ago and I have experienced zero problems with this setup. Now, in all fairness, Roy cautioned me ten years ago about the eminent demise of the tweeters. He felt the additional power they now see, will kill them off. The 3a's are in my den, a very small room, so keeping Roy's advice in mind, I rarely apply more than a watt of power. At that level the voltage across those tweeters ... well, it isn't very much ... NOT very much at all! They really aren't being "pushed" that hard and I suspect that is why almost 50 years later they still work and sound better than the original "muted" setup. Regards, Jerry
  8. The Quintessential AR Speaker

    I realize I am veering a little off topic, but if I had a friend with a pair of AR-4x's, I would "suggest" a stacking experiment. Since the 4's are 8 ohms, most decent amps could handle them in parallel. Has anyone ever tried this? Regards, Jerry
  9. The Quintessential AR Speaker

    As an original owner of a set of 3a's (and I still listen to this set frequently), I also agree with Steve's arguments. My only "twist" on this is that AR had a far, far more successful model in terms of units sold and that would be the 4x and it's various versions. I believe it was Tom who stated that in terms of units sold the 4x (and it's versions) far, far surpassed any other model. In fact, I have a hypothesis here: the AR-4x just might be the single most successful (in terms of units sold) speaker system of all time. Regards, Jerry
  10. I find my Marantz does a very good job at all sound levels when I have the Dyn EQ turned ON. With it turned OFF the sound becomes extremely thin at low levels. The other thing to try is Sam's suggestion on placement. That is, try listening at low levels WITHOUT those stands. Put the speakers right on the floor with possibly a carpet square if you have hard wood floors. Regards, Jerry
  11. AR3, AR-3a match with Mcintosh MC240?

    Kamol, if you want to push your 3's and 3a's to get the best sound possible out of them. I would encourage you to bi-amp. Look, no matter what single amp you power your AR's with, you cannot over come the response curve shown below with both pots set to max. With two amps (SS brute for the woofers and possibly your MC240 for the mids tweeters) you can simply push the mids/tweeters a little harder to flatten out the frequency response. Unfortunately, you cannot bi-amp with just the factory provided three terminals, like I do. Your amps both have output transformers, so you really need to bring out a 4th connection for the woofer return line. This does NOT have to be an expensive proposition. In the pic below, you can see an example of an additional terminal that I use on my 610's. It's just a wire threaded through a hole, caulked both inside and out. I solder the speaker wire to this wire and then cover both with a wire nut. (This is exactly the same method I use in the very corrosive environment in my boat and have never experienced a failure.) Regards, Jerry
  12. Acoustic Research AR3a Woofers Correct?

    Larry, those woofers are the exact same woofers as in my AR TSW-610's. They have a polypropylene cone vs paper. My experience is, these units do not go as low in frequency as the paper cone woofers in my AR-3a's. On the other hand, when you want SPL (i.e. crank it up) these woofers can handle power with ease. Not at all sure why that is, but these woofers can really handle power effortlessly. When you apply serious power, you don't get the impression thesee woofers are under any strain. My 3a's do give that impression and part of that might just be .... age! Regards, Jerry
  13. Follow up ar-5

    My pots were a very ugly green color. When you get corrosion this bad, it's my experience the root cause is dissimilar metals in contact with current flowing. (This is a major headache for all of us boaters. We even use huge sacrificial anodes to protect the metals we consider important.) At the time, I knew I was heading in the direction of bi-amping so I wanted a more permanent solution. Basically what bi-amp does is it moves those voice controls from the back of the speakers (those constantly corroding pots) to the volume controls on the two amps. Volume controls can also need cleaning (well some do - modern digital controls do NOT), but it's far easier to clean these than opening the AR's and messing with those pots. Then the other huge advantage is you get far, far more control with amps than you get with pots plus it's much easier to vary voice at will. Regards, Jerry
  14. Follow up ar-5

    John, I agree with your comments about tweeter output. I would like to take a minute to clarify the issue of "level controls were bypassed". If you look closely at the pics, the controls were NOT by-passed. Instead, someone took the lead normally attached to the wiper and soldered it to the top of the pot. This is the same as setting the controls to their max position, back when the pots were new and there was no corrosion. In short, the pots are still very much in the circuit. Further, setting the pots to max is what AR did in producing the graph below (AR-3a's). As you can see from the graph, the tweeter output is muted. Now, if you do remove the tweeter pot from the circuit as in a total by-pass, you will gain 1 to 1.5db. Still not enough! ... as least for me, it was still muted on my 3a's. What I eventually did is add a padding resistor to the mid driver and this knocks down the mid relative to the tweeter. That's not all it does, however! It also knocks down the mid relative to the woofer making a bass heavy speaker even more bass heavy!! So to bring everything back into balance, I bi-amp and sent more voltage to the mids/tweeters via the mid/tweeter amp. I did this nine years ago and still listen to my 3a's. So, I'm sure you are wondering whether it's worth all of the effort. In my opinion the difference is tremendous. For a control I also own a pair of AR TSW-610's with titanium dome tweeters. When I started this project, the 3a's sounded dull and muffled compared to the 610's. Today the 610 tweeters still out perform the 3a's, but NOT by much! I can hear the tweeters on the 3a's without the paper tubes whenever drummers hit the cymbals and ... hear very clearly. There is an old thread here where I documented the voltage I'm sending to the tweeters and surprisingly it isn't that much. Nevertheless, my black, 3/4" tweeters are now "seeing" far more voltage than they got nine years ago. Fortunately, my den is small and I rarely listen above 2 watts so the strain on the tweeters is small. Frankly I don't think it's a good idea to "push" any of the 3a drivers given their age and here I credit Roy for his encouragement and recommendations to go easy on these old drivers. Now, the 610's ... well that's another story. AR clearly had power in mind in the design of these speakers. These speakers you can push and you don't get the impression they are struggling at all.
  15. an AMP for AR 2a?

    Diego, if you really want to get the very most out of your AR's you might consider bi-amping. With bi-amping you dedicate an amp for the woofers and another stereo amp for the mids/tweeters. What you gain with bi-amping is total voice control ... far better than those pots on the back of the speakers. Further, you vary voice by varying the power you send to each speaker half. In the post below I explain about a somewhat unique amp I discovered about a year ago. This particular Sherwood has 4 full range amps capable of 4 ohm loads in a single box. With this unit, you can bi-amp safely with the 3 terminals AR provided. To vary voice all you do is alter the power on either amp via remote clicks. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9108-cheap-charlie-amp-solution-for-those-power-hungry-ars/ I have attached the datasheet below. Regards, Jerry Sherwood-RX-5502-datasheet.pdf