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Analogman

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Posts posted by Analogman


  1. Hello to all,

    Not a classic New England loudspeaker but here's hopin'!

    I have taken on a project for a dear friend that takes care of me at ACE hardware - to try and get this old Philco up and playing again - it was her Grandfather's

    I need the speaker, the complete unit with an audio output transformer

    There are TWO different versions of speaker for this model (chassis) but they treat them differently depending on the cabinet choice

    The one I need is broken down as follows:

    List number #29, PART# 36-3014 cone and voice coil assembly - S19 speaker

    List #32, PART #36-3987 referred to as the "S19" speaker field coil assembly, THEN

    there is list# 28, PART#32-7019 OUTPUT transformer for S19

    Here is the set's schematic:

    https://www.tubesandmore.com/schematics/philco-radio-television-corp/38-15-121124

    Bottom line, I need the correct field coil/speaker assembly/output transformer for this radio but I can be plenty happy with close enough if it's a matter of just adding some resistance  

    Philco 38-15 Code 124 Run 33

    Measurements hole to hole DIAGONAL = 8" - Measured just hole to hole just straight across = 5 and 3/4"

    Been told any of these could be made to work without reinventing the wheel and there are others as well

    84B, 60, 37-60, 37-61, 37-62, 37-610B, 37-610T, 37-620B, 37-2620B, 38-62, 38-9T, 38-10T, 38-60, 38-62

    Would really be wonderful if someone has something that would work

    Any help would be well received 

    I am a member, and this search/WTB post is at both, the Antique Radios forum as well as the Philco Phorum 

    Thank you all

    Craig


  2. On 6/14/2018 at 8:41 AM, rl1856 said:

    I found the Sept 70 issue of Electronics World.   Thank you.

    The AR3a was reviewed in by JH in the Jan 69 issue of the same publication.

    I have attached the relevant graph.  Notice anything different between this curve, and the AR3a curve included in the graph at the top of this thread ?

    AR3a Frequency Repsonse Curve.JPG

    Yes, like they were measuring two different boxes (systems) altogether 


  3. On 6/15/2018 at 6:51 AM, JKent said:

    I know Analogman became a bit argumentative but his advice to phone Bill LeGall was sound. 

    Kent

    I haven't been argumentative about anything Kent.  If standing one's ground on points that one knows to be FACTS is "argumentative" to you or anyone else then so be it.

    You have always been very kind and helpful towards me and I appreciate that. I have acknowledged and thanked you for it publicly on several occasions.  Same to be said about several other folks here as well.

    But I am not a person that's going to just go along to get along when some folks are just talking nonsense, and or, spreading misinformation or insisting on things that just aren't so

    This thread was a waste of time as the initial description of the issue was articulated horribly, right out of the gate, (and NOW we know, inaccurately)

    The first post would have led anyone to believe the OP's situation was the result of a transient event (mode switching or whatever with the amp turned way up)

    Craig


  4. On 6/14/2018 at 6:49 PM, Edzll said:

    I'm a bit surprised now, that nobody zeroed in on that when I described it.

    Why would they?  Ah, but actually someone did, right out of the gate - Aadams

    You stated in your second post to this thread that you had already addressed the foam on your woofers when suggested as a possible cause of your complaint by Aadams

    IN THE FIRST POST TO THIS THREAD AFTER YOU STARTED IT FOUR MONTHS AGO

    So, after all this palaver, the problem was a poorly done re-edge job - one done by yourself?

    And you're throwing insults in my direction for making the mistake of trying to help you  

    Gotta love it

    Craig  


  5. Don't know why ANYONE is buying or fooling with the rape job, over priced chinese CTS repro crap.......................

    .................when, for THE MOMENT, just about every incarnation of that CTS masterpiece is for sale on ePay in quantities ranging from singles to assembly line cases and ALL New Old Stock, AND every example I've researched was being offered by sellers with monster positive feedback(s)

    If the repros are what you want you can buy them off epay for about half of what the friendly guys at simply speakers etc et al. are gouging you for - the L25 JBL chinese repros too

    The chinese L25 repro can be had for around $25, SS is gouging at $79.95! Ridiculous - I've had some interesting correspondence with 'em on the fact that they're just re-selling the same junk off the net to which they make no denial (did say they had plans in the works to adjust their asking downwards, instead it's actually gone up)

    Same driver, same factory same everything as the $25 unit - they even use the same STOCK PHOTOS sans SS paper sticker on the magnet

    Guys, please don't support this crap until there is no other choice.............................and even then.......: - (

    Craig


  6. What's the end game debating the merits of reviews for speakers, now in some instances, pushing 60 years old?

    I personally have owned "2-ax"s "5"s "3"s and "3a"s

    The "5" with nothing more than fresh woofer edges was a better sounding, less dated sounding all 'rounder than any incarnation of the "3" that I have owned  - that was my experience

    With a fresh set of by-passed Daytons they were holographic (I don't deal in BS hyperbole)  they threw out a sound field that went well beyond the boundaries of the speakers, I mean WAAAY out, almost like a really well implemented  Hughes AK 100 type circuit - few visitors believed they were just being powered with a modest ("vintage") old Marantz and nothing more

    And I have absolutely NO idea how I can, could or would want to qualify, quantify, justify or explain my real life experience so it fits any of the narratives and rubberchickenmographs of these dusty old reviews - THEN or NOW

    All I know is what happened to me and how today I am still kicking myself in the ass for selling those "5"s for, you guessed it, money to apply to a clean pair of "3a"s that couldn't hold a candle to those "5"s - why?  I do not know

    The "3" is a cult of personality - I think a lot of people are as in love with the old stories and ad copy as they are with the lab results done on NEW examples 40 50 or even 60 years ago and which is absolutely meaningless today thanks to time 

    For any make, not just AR, any of 'em, JBL, Kloss stuff Advent, Altec etc

    Just enjoy your speakers and what's left of what they once were

    Craig 

     


  7. 15 hours ago, arken said:

    All right I ordered my Kester 44 63/37 eutectic solder and aluminum flux along with my capacitors! I'll use the polys on another job or send back. I really want the 3's to sound like they were intended to sound. I'm a little nervous but I'll be ok. This will be my 3rd time, set of 11a's and a set of 3a's. When I started with Acoustic Research a while back I just knew I liked the sound and the look, I had no idea that I would enjoy the whole process of working on them. The 3's I purchased were from a fellow in Canada. Unbelievable physical condition but none of the tweeters or midranges worked and one of the woofers makes a popping sound. So I tested them (mids+tweeters) with an old low power receiver and they all work! I am sending the woofer to Larry at Vintage-AR who did a terrific job with the woofers in the 11's. I very much appreciate all the great advise I get from you guys. I am not really a mechanically gifted person but I can follow instructions. Thanks a bunch Ken :D

    Great!  Sounds good, you'll be fine

    As for the flux, you don't need flux for aluminum work unless you are soldering aluminum

    Like I posted earlier up this thread, SP-44 or similar is fine for everything else

    Not a big deal no matter though

    Craig


  8. On 6/8/2018 at 7:20 PM, ra.ra said:

    As we are seeing from many experienced hands in this thread, there is more than one way to skin a cat. One just needs to know what they are trying to accomplish - - - several different roads can lead to the same destination. 

    I would think the whole what's trying to be accomplished thing is pretty much the same for all of us - to restore the pots to "as new" working order or as close to it as is possible

    Many ways will work that's for sure but no need for a sledge hammer when a scalpel will do - and do less damage/shorten the life of the pot in the meantime as well

    I personally see no merit or upside to washing anything (with water) I'm going to take apart anyway - especially anything electronics related

    If there is so much corrosion on the wiper (the green rot) that I need to give it an acid bath first to determine the condition of what I'm working with (if it's still serviceable) then I can pretty much make the call right then and there I need another candidate

    That's the road I like to take

    Craig


  9. 2 hours ago, larrybody said:

    I figured this out a couple of years ago after cleaning up a dozen or so of those Aetna-Pollak pots. I use a fiberglass polishing pen to clean the up now days. 

    http://www.cooltools.us/Scratch-Brush-Pen-Style-Fiberglass-p/brn-207.htm

    The secret to a successful restoration is having examples that are not totally corroded.  I wish AR would have used higher quality potentometers, but it is what it is. That is why they eventually went to switches and resisters.   

    I think the Aetna-Pollak pots are of very high quality, especially for a vented wire wound type - they're just one of those parts that's never, if ever, serviced by typical consumer type end users

    Out of sight out of mind and for 99.9% of the typical AR owners back in the day and were given little thought if any until they misbehaved, generally decades after the speakers were new

    It's amazing how long so many of them have lasted with zero service - same as with JBL and a few other who used similar types

    Those same pots in a studio or pro environment would be on a list of things receiving regular and routine maintenance

    It's not the pots' fault


  10. On 6/8/2018 at 12:43 PM, arken said:

    There is a Kester 44 rosin core solder 60/40 .031 .05 oz.  on eBay for 4.25 Sound like it? Thanks Ken

    "44" is Kester's product line

    60/40 is perfectly fine but it is NOT a eutectic alloy 

    Eutectic solder melts at a slightly lower temperature and solidifies (goes from liquid to solid) almost instantly so less chance of grey, grainy or cold joints - also gives you better wetting

    This characteristic is also of great help when you are dealing with delicate or hard to hold/get to joints

    If you are preparing to purchase some solder get Kester 63/37 - Parts Express or any of the big vendors will have it 

    It will cost you 2 or 3 dollars more than the 60/40 but it is well worth the nominal increase

    The Kester # is  24-6337-0027

    And yes, I think the .031" wire is the most versatile size wire

    The number I gave you is for a pound - I quite buying the small tubes a long time ago - the costs for those will eat you alive over time, especially if you do even a moderate amount of work

    The 1/2 ounce tubes should cost around 3 bucks, so no, that's not such a great deal UNLESS that price includes shipping

    If that's all you want or need, buy it from Parts Express when you order your caps so the shipping won't eat you alive - they have 63/37 in the small 1/2 ounce tubes as well (I gave my opinion on what caps I would use in your other thread)  If you elect to go with my advice then you'll be able get all of your parts and supplies from the same vendor - i.e. one order - one shipping cost

    https://www.parts-express.com/kester-pocket-pak-solder-63-37-0031-050-oz-tube--370-053


  11. As for soldering aluminum?  If Kester SP-44 (now discontinued and hard to find - luckily I bought a whole pound off the auction site a while back from an electronics store closeout) won't do the trick, you'll have to use one of the highly activated/aggressive types like F61A or similar - plenty of choices available on-line and in small quantity

    I've never had any issues with the little bit of aluminum work I've encountered BUT you have to really clean he aluminum to get it to stick no matter what flux you use - as in lightly sand the joint and clean it - don't fool around and do the work right away

    The rest is the same as soldering any wire - just buy yourself a small bottle of aluminum flux and keep it on hand for the rare occasions you might need it

    ALWAYS use flux for ANY soldering job and ALWAYS use a eutectic blend and you shouldn't have any problems

    Craig


  12. When polishing contacts go to any and all lengths to AVOID harsh abrasives (like sand papers or grinding bits)  Using those will only create micro scratches where new corrosion can more easily return - they also remove more material than is needed to get the contacts clean and shiny (and more importantly- conductive again)

    IF you have to use an abrasive (mechanical) then keep it at 1500 wet/dry paper at most dampened with either deoxit or isopropyl alcohol - insert between the wiper and the coil and work the pot to clean the wiper then flip the paper and just drag it over the coils using only the pressure provided by the tension of the wiper

    Use Flitz or Maas applied judiciously with a cotton swab ("Q" tip), work the pot and clean up with 99% alcohol or even deoxit or a product like the CRC stuff for electronics

    Clean the brass contacts at either end of the coils with the "Q" tip and the polish as well

    Do not wash pots with water or immerse them in anything (liquid) as there is no real need for it

    After all the conducting elements are clean then treat them with whatever contact enhancer/preserver you like - I personally use a THIN film of dielectric grease but deoxit is fine here too as well as any number of products designed for the task

    The greatest advantage I have found of using dielectric grease is that it will outlast all the others before reapplication is required (if at all) as well as, and more importantly so, reduce contact wear on the wiper.  Makes the pot "feel" better too

    Lubricate the shafts with a good heavy grease like one of the Nye lubricant products or similar (a thin film of the 300,000 cSt silicone so popular for fixing turntable cue lifts works well too) to give your controls that nice smooth tactile feel as well as sealing them from the elements - whatever you have on hand or is practical for you, just don't reassemble the pots "dry" through the bushing

    The trick to getting 100% results to restoring these things is to go EASY on them when cleaning

    Craig


  13. What is it that's aluminum you are soldering?

    I assume your original pots are the infamous Aetna-Pollak types?

    If so, no aluminum there

    Regardless, it's welding aluminum that requires a higher level of skill than ferrous metals

    Basic electronics soldering is just that - soldering - heat the joint until it's hot enough to melt the solder and have at it

    Keep in mind too that solder, when connecting circuits involving WIRE(s), in and of itself is NOT the connection (we're not taking surface mount here) but rather the insurance that the mechanical connection holds and sustains good contact and conductivity

    Always use a good iron,  a eutectic alloy and always use flux (even if the solder wire you use states "rosin core") and you will have few problems if any 


  14. Dayton (their 5% model, don't waste the extra money on the 1% "versions", trust me) and or the standard Solens 

    I have used both in ARs and both have yielded superlative results (and lots of positive comments, not about or from "cap people" but people just saying "wow" about how good the systems sounded)

    I say that about the Daytons because I measured a large clutch of them, in a multitude of values, and the accuracy factor on the 5% versions was just as good as with the 1%ers and they cost considerably less

    I also (personal preference) by-pass all polypropylenes with a .01uF film and foil type but that's up to you, it's not a requisite

    Both caps are VERY good quality wise - but the very best sounding pair of ARs I ever refreshed did get the Solens treatment (the caps themselves or just coincidence, who knows?)

    You can't go wrong with either one - for the past 10 years all I've used for crossovers has been the Daytons and I've not been disappointed with the results on any pair I've done

    Ranging the gamut from dead drivers to just being way off spec (or open)

    Don't fall for the boutique crap and waste a lot of money whatever you choose

    Craig

     


  15. 1 hour ago, Aadams said:

    Well there goes another safe topic.  Who would have thought wire nuts could be heard? (Rhetorical)

    Adams

    I don't think anyone said or implied that you could unless I missed something

    For me, it's a matter of maintaining decades of maximum circuit integrity in as many spots as is practical (and less things to clean service and drench with deoxit)

    I've had plenty of KLHs (and others, notably University who also loved them some wire nuts) with dead tweeters and the culprit was green oxidation in, you guessed it, the wire nut connection(s)

    Soldered connections, properly dressed after they're done will last a lifetime or two

    No excuse not to do the job the best it can be done except laziness or rationalization

    Craig

     


  16. My personal belief and practice?

    In electronics there is NO connection better than NO connection - period

    Maybe for home electrical wiring and the like but not for passing audio signals

    I ALWAYS solder electrical connections when doing service and restoration work except where faston types were used by the manufacturer as are commonly found on tweeters

    I also do not solder the obvious such as woofer connections equipped with spring terminals, phono cartridges etc where by doing so damage could be incurred, or in instances when no practical provision to do so is allowed for (i.e. some of these terminals involving threaded fasteners and such which I also try to avoid when I have a choice such as upgrading binding posts) Molex connectors et al.

    But when a solder lug is provided I use it, or, when I have a choice and never attempt to circumvent those times for the sake of convenience

    Too many stories to share as for why I feel this way other than my opening statement which I will always stand by until can't do anything with this hobby any longer

    NO connection is better than NO connection - meaning purely mechanical

    I realize and understand that wire nuts were, and still are, popular and were a favorite of a lot of makers (and to this day for a great many hobbyists as well) - to my mind that still doesn't make them legitimate in any respect other than it saved them money and time to do so 

    Everything in a speaker enclosure should be hardwired in my opinion with the few exceptions noted above 

    But no, I do not hard wire my speaker cables to my amps and components : - )  I do have to make a few concessions

    Craig


  17. I lugged (5) that's FIVE of these woofers around with me and (2) original cast frame types for TWO HOUSE moves - for a Grand Total of SEVEN AR 10" woofers, all from 2ax(s)

    Four were from consecutively numbered boxes 

    NO BODY wanted 'em, including the vintage AR guy who sells on ePay (and is a member here)

    Could not give them away, even on craigslist

    All were perfect, measured well, just needed foam (except the cast pair obviously, one of those had the shitty spider glue syndrome)

    I had gone with Layne Audio woofers in these particular restorations (why I had so many)

    Couldn't bring myself to doing anything drastic with them until I just got sick of looking at them/making space for them so about 5 years ago I just shit canned them (literally, on trash day) - couple of late production tweeters too with the plastic flanges and "AR" stamped in them

    Now, everyone wants them to the point of parsing serial numbers and magnet types

    You know, if you're going to get involved in this hobby you almost need a warehouse

    It's worse than collecting anything - it always seems to just grow

    Craig


  18. On 5/15/2018 at 8:54 PM, Rob Irvin said:

    Thanks Pete.I am just waiting for for an original early version with cloth surrounds.I spent so much time and effort to get them to this point,I am too stubborn to not complete them back to what they were before that dropping incident,thanks again,Rob

    The original cast frame and the stamped steel won't interchange (fit) in each other's respective boxes anyway


  19. On 5/30/2018 at 10:21 PM, dxho said:

    If the terminal plate is recessed, you have the Callins or whatever caps, not the PIO. If the terminal plate
    is flush with the back of the cabinet, you might have metal caps. If not, they're some other brand besides
    the black plastic body Callins.

    Recessed terminal plates were phased in somewhere around serial 134xxx.

    Missed the boat on this one by 3 and a 1/2 years as well as the fact that "might" falls into the same category as "consistently inconsistent"........................or if you prefer, there'll be an "exception to every rule, every time"

    ............à la most, if not all products Kloss ever had anything to do with (during the real Walnut veneer era)

    Thanks for playing though! 

    Craig


  20. On 5/7/2018 at 11:07 AM, longdrive03 said:

    Pete and all,

    I know this is an old thread but thought I would ask some questions.

    I've replaced crossover components on LA and NLA in the past along with veneering the cabinets and finishing for resale.

    I just bought a pair of Advent 1 speakers at an estate sale.  Everything works except the woofer surrounds are toast which I will refoam tonight.

    I understand the woofer and tweeter in Advent 1 are the same as in the NLA???  The Advent one only has one coil, a 13uf NPE and a 1Ohm resistor.

    I will recap and replace the 10 ohm resistor.  Not sure what the value is on the coil or the dcr but may replace those as well.  

    Looks like I could go with one of the early versions of the crossover with the switch and more components.  Or should I stay with the current plan and replace the cap and resistor and maybe the coil?  

    I plan on building a LA size new cabinet and veneering with ribbon mahogany  or walnut with solid front trim and new grills and cloth attached with magnets.

    Thanks.

     

    Longdrive03 (Ken)  

    IMG_3685.JPG

    Replace your surrounds, change the electrolytic for a film type and leave the balance of the parts alone

    There is absolutely no need to change either the cement wirewound or the coil

    None

    Craig

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