Jump to content
The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums

Aadams

Members
  • Content count

    372
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About Aadams

  • Rank
    Advanced Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  1. How good is this system? From the beginning this has been an experiment. One big concern was becoming so invested emotionally or financially that I could not admit failure. I avoided the financial problem by refusing to spend money on anything that could not be employed in another system or given away without regret. The subjective, emotional investment was avoided by knowing that I always had 9s and 3as as reference and backup when I needed to calibrate my ears and if the experiment failed I would still have good sound. Because I have not moved this system into a big room to assess it directly against my 9s and 3as, I will not say that it is an unequivocal success but, in this small 1000cft room I find myself frequently smiling at what I hear and am astonished at how little effort and time it would have taken had I known the direct path at the time I started. The cost. If you have read the opening post to this thread you know the original cost included a new pair of powered sub-woofers for which I was willing to spend up to $1000 and was 80% of the budget. Everything else was purchased used or already in my possession. After the sub-woofers were returned and this became a “Frankenstein” experiment the incremental cash outlay stood at around $200. In its current and final form, the total expenditure is very close to $750 as follows: Pre amp – Pioneer 850 that once drove AR58s system Equalizer- Realistic 10 band already in use with AR58s BA CR65 speakers x 6 Approx $30 each Crown amp for 2 ohm load- $299 Crown amp to isolate and drive AR58 woofer $250 XLR cables $15 AR 58s – Previously used as separate system and AR9 standby parts bin. Total incremental cost was $744 If the project had failed the Crowns would be used on my 9s and 3s so there never was real fear of failure. Aadams
  2. I started this thread almost three years ago, at the time a little more ignorant than my current state. I am now confident there is no practical, cost effective, way to make four pairs of AR3as perform like 2 pairs of LSTs. This thread should be terminated and ignored. correction: 1 Pair of LSTs Adams
  3. Thanks. Check your feed. Also your message box is full again. Adams
  4. I googled and can't find anything on the Sherwood.  It doesn't appear to be current product.  I haven't said specifically in the thread but I am already using two Crown xls1002s with their built in crossovers.  Is the Sherwood a similar product.

     

    1. Aadams

      Aadams

      Ok.  I found one on ebay.  There was no operating manual so I am not certain it would do the job but it has now been surpassed by amps with DSPs integrated.  For example,The crown xls series allows frequency selection in 1/12 octave  increments per channel between 30 and 3000 hz. Crossover modes are HIgh, Low and Bandwidth.  It is a very cool product for a surprisingly small price and 5 year warranty. Combined rated power available at my rated impedance is 900watts per channel which is coincidence.  I just needed something that could carry a 2 ohm load.  And then I got another one to isolate the AR woofer.

       

  5. Keeping in mind the thread topic of woofer crossover points: For me imaging is a fortuitous by-product. I normally listen to these speakers at 12-15ft and just park my brain listening but sometimes one is drawn to the lyrics of a song. When there is a solo voice I begin to focus on intelligible lyrics within the balanced overall sound, which is how I came to discover this threshold difference between the 9 and the 3a. The speakers are sitting side by side, inches apart, on different amps, same source, same equalizer and attenuators at zero. The referenced passage is not absolutely clear on any speaker of mine at normal listening distant but is less so on the 3a. To hear it clearly on the 3a your ear needs to be almost in the driver, maybe 3" away at low volume. I know the woofer is doing its part but it does not reproduce frequencies much above the crossover point. If a performer sings a 440hz A, then the first natural harmonic is 880hz. With a 575hz crossover design, the fundamental and some overtones will be placed in the woofer and all prominent harmonics and remaining overtones are in the mid and that is what I hear. This is not true with the 9 or the 3 but it is for all other 3 way 12" ARs. It is not a problem I was just pointing out some arcana that can be demonstrated at my house with my limited resources and what I have observed when instruments are split by crossovers. This same effect can be observed by crossing a powered woofer in the low mid range and spatially separating it from the upper drivers. A vocal recording will seem to bounce from speaker to speaker And, I am not criticizing the 3a because I have never heard anything superior for presentation of orchestral recordings but, human voice can reveal its weakness perhaps because we are most sensitive to those frequencies and timbres in which we naturally communicate. Perhaps keenness for speech is why I have not read of Live vs Recorded tests being done with vocalists. Aadams
  6. Lots of options for speaker arrangement. The pictures show what seems optimal and very pleasant in this room. First one shows the 30 degree offset of the satellites. The second image is the view from the center line. I get a sweet spot up close and spaciousness when I move back. This is far better than the first generation of this hybrid.
  7. This brings attention back the point of greatest distortion at normal listening levels, the area around 300hz, which is only two semi-tones away from 262hz (Middle C) and the area around which most popular music vocals are performed. Here is an arcane bit of trivia. If you listen at the end of “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights” which is sung well below 500hz, you can clearly hear in one channel Mr. Loaf singing “It was long ago and far away ……………… while in the opposite channel Ellen Foley is singing a different lyric in counterpoint. The Ellen Foley lyric is not completely intelligible on a 3a but can be heard on a 9 or another speaker where the voice is carried in single driver. The arcane part is she can be heard clearly in the 3a up close in the mid-range driver alone as harmonics and overtones or in the woofer alone as fundamentals but back off and let the two sounds merge and it gets garbled. With a crossover above 300hz voices are split from their harmonics and overtones between the mid and the woofer. A crossover at 200hz puts almost all voice in a single driver as with a crossover at 1000hz. I don’t know if driver arrangement, distortion or woofer crossover point is the answer, but voices are clearer when the they are carried in a single driver IN MY EXPERIENCE. Hence the 4 way and maybe the inevitable de-emphasis of dispersion and power response. Adams
  8. Thanks, both of you. This post was pointing out that AR apparently saw a way to improvement in their full range TOTL by lowering the 12" woofer crossovers. It never got lower than 525hz until they incorporated cone mids. For me, the matrix shows, at normal listening levels, the distortion of the woofer at 80hz is equal to the rated distortion of some amplifiers, which is good for a speaker. To bad they didn't test all the way to the 700hz crossover point of the 12" three way verticals. IN MY OPINION the AR 12" speakers with the lowest woofer crossovers sound better, in the music packed human voice octaves, than those with higher crossovers. Adams
  9. Also a great use for thousands of old Advents.
  10. AR5 pair for sale

    Will also consider straight swap for Walnut OLAs in similar condition.
  11. Onplane After this post I will shut up and just watch. There are several paths to achieving your goal. The summation of all that has been posted in this thread is whatever pleases your ears is the solution and whatever you choose will stand a better chance of pleasing your ears if you use an equalizer IMO. Adams
  12. That phrase does appear once in the body of the post. The other phrase is featured more prominently at the beginning and the end. The OP can clarify.
  13. I am not going to hijack this thread, but I want to reiterate a point that has been made at least twice earlier. The topic is “how would you achieve the “AR sound” with modern components?”--- not current production. Pete B has pointed out that it can be done with an equalizer and used BA T 1030s. I have said it can be done with an equalizer and any AR12” woofer and used satellites. I feel sure both approaches rival the sound of an AR 4way. I know it is true in one case. The OP suggested powered subs and satellites so, in deference, we are exploring that path but, he has not said which of his ARs is the target. The AR3a sound will be near impossible so, are we aiming for a 910 sound? Onplane, if you actually pull the trigger on this project, after getting everything set up, are you going to trust your ear and say close enough is OK or AB against one of your ARs? Are you awaiting assurance that the NHT roll off will blend with the sub-woofer? No one here seems to know. Would you consider using a high cut filter in case it doesn’t blend? Will you be using an equalizer? Or, are you expecting the sub and sat combo to meet expectations out of box once they are wired up and balanced? Am I being too forward? Adams
  14. AR9LSi + Crown XLS2500 + Sansui555a OK?

    That old 50 watt Sansui will be safe as a preamp but if it is all original I would not trust it to power the AR9s except maybe to verify they operate. The amp is expendable but you could damage the speakers. It is wise to wait for the Crown. Adams
  15. Actual 7" CR8 CR85. CR7 range was 6.5"
×