Aadams

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About Aadams

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  1. Great post and I want to make a clarification. I was not saying the AR 5 was a pre-emptive response to the OLA. I was saying, It really has a limited appeal if a 3 is equally accessible. Also, with regard to the OLA; AR just plain never responded even though they were the go to bass brand for at least 15 years. IMO the 5 was ARs attempt to spread the blessings of AR3 power response and smoothness down market to a yearning mass of sophisticated ears when, as you so eloquently stated, the down market was in fact mostly about the visceral bass hit and sizzle at a value price point. I will say,once again, in those days I would have preferred the Advent. I was such a rookie. PS This entire thread is a about how the disregard of 4 musical notes reshaped an industry. We are literally talking about 3 or possibly 4 tempered pitches of sound over a span of 8hz. Adams
  2. Disregarding price the only way an AR5 makes sense is as an AR3a mimic for chamber music lovers or perhaps acoustic jazz. I have both. Once you have the 3 or 3a the 5 is an oddball that can't satisfy in a lot of situations. IMO AR didn't see the Advent coming and never mounted a credible response for whatever reason. Teledyne, a conglomerate, took over at the dawn of the Advent era, by default trusted AR management who proceeded to do nothing but ride it out. They were myopic and perhaps a little too familiar with Henry Kloss to accurately assess the threat. The hypothetical cost and price of what could have been don't matter because AR never really responded for almost the entire life of the OLA. Its not like they actually made something and just priced it wrong.
  3. Everything that has been said sounds accurate and plausible. The only thing left is to point out the irony of AR making its name on extended bass and then not being able to deliver the goods when challenged. I don't think AR owners and principle stakeholders were really hungry in 1967. They were probably thinking about how to cash out and perhaps had become complacent, navel gazing, contemplating the aesthetic beauty of power response. Suddenly the market was awash with no-longer cash-strapped, bass-hungry, rock fans and it was too late.
  4. Thanks Good ad hoc history. It took 40 years but there is finally a cost effective Advent killer; Add a pair of decent speaker stand/sub-woofers to your 5,2ax,14 or 12. Adams
  5. All I can say in response is: Beautiful dance on a third rail topic. Adams
  6. Roy I have AR service replacement woofers in late model Euro style AR5s. IYO is there any advantage to switching them to the flat dust cover 10" woofer. Would they sound different? Be more period correct? Were Euro AR5s ever designed and made with a domed dust cover 10"? Is there a question I should have asked but missed? Thanks Aadams
  7. I have done a cursory study on installing a 12inch woofer into an AR 14 cabinet. It can't be done correctly with all of the best tools and skill sets available. AR put the tweeter so low in the cab that cutting for the 12 inch woofer frame would either hit the tweeter port or be so close it would weaken the baffle. It is wood, so of course it could be made to accommodate re-positioning the tweeter but it almost certainly would retain a Frankenstein aspect and not be worth the effort. It might make sense in Mad Max world but we are not there yet.
  8. I have a pair of 14s. They are very smooth and well balanced, better than OLAs through their common response range. I don't use them because I am accustomed to 12 inch sound but I would consider moding them if I had a plan to follow. The crossovers look relatively simple and the woodworking would not be much of a challenge.
  9. Ok I think you were saying for that kind of money people expected extended bass. Re the re-read advice. I already knew the cabs were the same. My question was: Without regard to aesthetics and mechanical issues, is the 12 inch woofer a direct drop in replacement for the 10" with no crossover mods? Adams
  10. "People wanted that 12-inch bass in an expensive AR speaker." Steve F 1. Don't you mean inexpensive? 2. In retrospect It is a wonder that AR management could not see the logic in a 2 way 12 inch AR14 to appeal to the bass hungry value shopper. Considering EPI was cranking out multi baffle 8 inch 2 ways and Advent was still making it on the NLA it does seem like a miss. 3. Question for anyone who knows the answer. Woodworking aside and considering the cabinets are the same volume. What if an AR11 Woofer was dropped into an AR14 cabinet w/ 14 tweeter and crossover. How well would it work? What would be the effort to make it work well? Adams
  11. Does this mean dealers would not drill holes in the AR5-P or turn the pots to full decrease? Based on what you have stated previously there were other issues. The dealers would still have had financial incentive to steer malleable buyers to other brands even if AR had made it possible to sell a superior product in every respect at the same price, that is so long as the dealer was expected to eat the discount. Adams
  12. Assuming you have positive profit margin it is always better to get the sale than lose it. If the AR5-P cannibalized 3a sales at the same time it negated an Advent, EPI, JBL etc. sale that would be a good outcome. The 3a would still be there for listeners that could hear the difference. This is all speculation but here are some questions for some here who might know the answers. Was the refusal by AR to lower wholesale prices in the face of competition a product of arrogance or complacency. Did executive pay plans depend on margin or market share? Would a Villchur owned company have responded differently than did Teledyne management to the value proposition and threat posed by Kloss?
  13. My first serious investment in speakers was horn loaded JBLs in 1972. They looked like works of industrial art. They had a "presence" adjustment that made things sound real plus a 15" bass driver that probably went all the way to 45hz on a good day and they had high sensitivity. I could play them very loud on an little amp that would have been life threatening to an AR3a and they cost more than 3as. They had to be better.
  14. Sounds like you were already conditioned to appreciate ARs. I was not. My ear grew up with different influences and biases . My preferences changed over the decades but I did not come to appreciate ARs until comparatively recently. IMO 12 inch ARs could be made to mimic an Advent but the reverse is not true given the right music material.
  15. Ok In 2017 dollars that is still $1230 for vinyl clad particle board. My point was about how I would have reacted as a shopper in the perspective of a 2017 dollar. At the time I would have preferred the Advent sound for the bass and mid range emphasis unless the dealer tried to educate my ear to toward the AR sound, which he apparently had no financial incentive to do given the margin range available vs AR. The Advents presented a great value for rock & rollers. I don't see any cannibalization though perhaps self immolation on the part of AR.