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Aadams

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  1. Aadams

    AR Tweeter replica/replacement

    Of course, you are correct. The best tools can always be used ineffectively to get unsatisfying results. One may prefer the sound of properly working 91 but it will not sound like a properly working 3a except at unrealistic listening distances. Yes the verticals had something extra. They would go to 11. Adams
  2. If you are talking about individual drivers I have no way of doing that. If you are referring to entire speaker systems that is how I discovered the need for more tweeter output. As for measurement I only have my ears which are slowly failing.
  3. I used “Holographic” because it is the only single word I could think of to describe the sound but that word implies a 3d effect and that is not accurate IMO. However, in my experience the effect you heard on your AR9s sounds similar except with the 3a, LST, or 5 the size of the listening area would be much larger and probably would not require any toe in of the speakers. Hearing the difference also depends on how the recording was engineered IMO. If it was created in a studio, you may not hear the difference. Anything recorded in complete live performance and engineered with the objective of recreating the live venue sound will easily convey the difference. This is not imaging or an enveloping sound field. It is more akin to sitting in an audience and changing the volume according to which seat row you prefer. I have AR9s to which I listen frequently, but the 9 does not present a recording in the same way a properly working Allison era classic can do above 500hz or so. Until now I have felt fortunate to have good working original tweeters in my 3as. I knew my 5 tweeters were ailing but was flabbergasted at the difference after the rebuild. Now I wonder what I am missing with the 3as. CSP handle is Chris1this1 Adams
  4. Full disclosure: I started this thread with goal of consolidating the current best options for 3a tweeter replacement. I recently had working AR5 tweeters rebuilt. The difference is astonishing. Someone recently, on this forum, mentioned how they remember AR5s sounding holographic. That post came to mind when I reconnected my AR5s. My 3as have unmolested working tweeters that have decent output when using the cardboard tube test, but I know now they are deficient. The only practical way to restore the sound that Roy Allison intended us to hear is a rebuilt tweeter. I am sure the HIVI works well but I am doubtful you will get that “holographic” sound from recordings that were or are engineered to convey an original large soundstage. If you don’t listen to those types of recordings, then you will probably never hear the difference. The 3a, LST, and AR5 were the only mass produced AR speakers capable of this kind of sound. Nothing after. I cannot hear above 12khz, maybe lower now, but I hear just fine at 5Khz where the crossover blends between the mid and tweeter. At the crossover frequency both units should have approximately the same output with the controls set to max. If not, your original tweeter is ailing. Adams
  5. The classics that I have seen have all had Sprague or Chicago Industrial.......no Callins. I was working from memory and probably conflated the graphs and the Allison document. Adams
  6. We seem to be at a low in topic generation. Given AR as the focus, the universe of topics is limited but this may be a new one in the sense that it has been hinted but never explicitly explored. Question: What is the likelihood of a ¾” AR3a, 5, or LST tweeter installed new in in 1974, which has worked without failure to today, is still operating to at least 80% of its designed output? Given that most 3a and 5 owners set the tweeter control to max, and according to Mr Allison flat response in the tweeter range requires an additional 5 db boost, it seems that any drop off from 100% performance would mean a TOTL classic AR does not sound at all they way it should. My conclusion: The likelihood is very low that 45 to 50 year old AR tweeters are even operating at 50%. This means if you want your 3as, LSTs or 5s to sound very near original you should have the tweeters rebuilt or install HIVIs. The route you choose really depends on budget and listening preferences. Feel free to change my mind. Adams
  7. Aadams

    AR Tweeter replica/replacement

    Ditto on the woofers. DavidR The 10pi restored to exact specs will never sound like the 91, if you listen with an audiophile ear. The 10pi should be more akin to the 3a in sound. IMO opinion the 91 was never the TOTL, it was merely billed as the premier 3way of the vertical series. If you prefer the 91 sound with its half octave higher woofer crossover it is a different matter. Best move now, IMO, is stop working on the 10pi and move on to your AR9s. The 9s will eclipse the 91s in all areas as should your 90s if they are working correctly. Just my 2 cents. Adams
  8. When I made the statement above regarding 3way AR speakers my AR5s were not in use. I recently completed a refurbishment including rebuilt tweeters and I can say the AR 5 is an exception with its 10' woofer and xover to the mid driver at around 600hz. It is easily matches more modern small cones for clarity and overmatches in spaciousness. I didn't know then what I know now. Adams
  9. I know, at my house, the AR5 and AR3a sound virtually identical in their common range. When I started this project over a year ago I was trying to match or exceed the sound of an AR58s. Over the past two days I have been directly comparing the sound of the Sat Stack with AR5s in a four-way bi amped configuration. The 4 way config uses the AR5 10” woofer as a low mid driver between 200 and 600Hz. Everything below 200hz is carried by the 58s woofer. The setup is as follows: AR5s are fully functional with new rebuilt tweeters. The late style woofers have resistors installed to bring sensitivity in line with the earlier woofer…. Graphic equalizer is bypassed, Hi control is full and mid control is half. Sat Stacks, consisting of 6 BA65 speakers……..12 drivers in all, as pictured previously, are on the graphic equalizer set flat except at 1000hz which is 3db down. The Sat Stacks are sitting directly atop the AR5s which are on a pedestal 12” above the floor. The recordings are all very familiar, to me, classical and two specific pop vocals that have sections of lyrics difficult to render. Conclusion: The sound is virtually identical if not on a direct AB switch. This means if you were to walk in the room being acquainted with the sound but not knowing which was playing it would be a 50/50guess. I have demonstrated, to my satisfaction at least, the expansive sound of the classic AR domes can be duplicated with an inexpensive array of more modern speakers. The stacks will remain on the AR5s indefinitely. And, I am very glad I did not sell my AR5s. One surprise: The AR5 vocal performance is the equal of the Sat stack. The AR5s are definitely better than my 3as in this area Second surprise: The sound spread of the Classic AR domes is remarkable. They can equal the spread of twelve modern drivers. I am not talking about power handling but dispersion. I think this ability ended with the beginning of the ADD series. I know the 58s cannot create the same expanse of sound as the AR5. Finally, there is a thread in the AR forum about getting the AR sound from modern components. I can say without reservation this is one way to achieve that. I don’t know if there will be anything more to post on this thread unless there is some new unexpected revelation or perhaps questions to answer.
  10. Life got in the way over the last month. Finally, however, the Chris1 rebuilt tweeters are installed and operating. I think it must be like having new AR5s. The ambient echo of some recordings that can be heard on the Sat Stack can now be heard on the AR5s. The four way configuration sounds better than an AR3a IMO but we are not talking about vast differences. In fact I may need to get my 3a tweeters rebuilt for a fair comparison. Gone is the 2db equalizer bump at 2000hz which helped voices but was causing some harshness. My way too early impression is the spaciousness of the classic AR dome drivers can be only be matched with an array of modern drivers. A single two way box doesn't have a chance against an AR5. More later after I get everything reset for extended listening. Adams
  11. Aadams

    AR-XA in box?

    No, we really do agree. I merely skipped over a lot of words about equalizers to say we agreed. And I am still leaving out some details because in the end it will make no difference in our lives but, I do believe we agree.
  12. Aadams

    AR-XA in box?

    and now we agree. Why use an equalizer if one is willing to search for cartridge/arm combos that will provide what is sought in hard wired form? (Rhetorical) Adams
  13. Aadams

    AR-XA in box?

    Yes the equalizer is always in line after the phono stage. If you change tone arm and cartridge doesn't that cause an equalizer change? ................assuming an equalizer is used.
  14. Aadams

    AR-XA in box?

    What is the difference between choosing from among multiple TONE arm and cartridge combinations to get a sound profile and simply using a 31 band equalizer? It seems to me that Tone/Cartridge combos are really hardwired equalizers that require a lot of futzing. Am I wrong? Adams
  15. Aadams

    AR-XA in box?

    Here is a preview for the closing credits to this thread. "In the making of this thread no animals were harmed and no minds were changed" Adams
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