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Scott

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  1. I would be grateful to anyone who could sell me a KL:H tweeter from one of the following models (all these models use the same tweeter): Model 6("late style") Model 17 Model 20 Model 20+ Model 33. I understand that there might also be a compatible tweeter in one of the "Ensemble" speakers from CSW. I have a pair of Model 33 speakers, and one has a dead tweeter. My understanding is that they are all identical, so I only need to buy one. (I.E. No need for a "matching pair" as they all match each other. But it might be easier to find a pair.) Thanks, scott
  2. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Just a quick follow-on post 1-2 months after completing 'phase 1' of the project: The short I asked about in my last post turned out to be something of a red-herring: somehow I left a stray bit of wire in the cabinet, which of course managed to lodge itself perfectly placed to connect one of the terminals to the metal back-plate. If I had tried to solder a connection in the same place it would not have been as robust and perfect as the one which was done by pure chance. In any case, removing it solved the problem. A month+ on, the "good" speaker really sounds nice. I even find myself using my trusty Etymotic ER-4 earphones less. The main problem is that one of the pair had a dead tweeter, and I have yet to find a KLH tweeter for sale that I can use to replace the dead one. I will try posting in the forum here, but if anyone reading this happens to have one or a pair of compatible KLH tweeters, for a reasonable price, please do let me know. It's possible that I'm just searching badly, so feel free to send me links to reasonable candidates you come across as well.These days I'm checking ebay, craiglst, and google pertty much daily. (and the buy/sell forum here, of course) Sinaly, I'm quite sure that at some ponit I read on this site some post about there being a compatible tweeter in some CSW speaker (which was also a Kloss design, of course). But I can't seem to findm y way back to that post, so I haven't been able to search for *that* tweeter. Please let me know if you can tell me what CSW model tweeter this was. Thanks! scott
  3. Scott

    HELP! Has anyone figured out KLH tweeters?

    :FWIW, here is proof that THIRTY_THREE goes with SIX, SEVENTEEN, and TWENTY. It is a pic of a dead tweeter that I removed from a pair of Thirty-threes:
  4. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Just a short time after I finished everything but find a replacement tweeter --- total silence. After seemingly endless connecting and reconnecting, I think I might understand what's happened. May I just ask a question so naive it makes everything I've asked up to now seem very sophisticated: If I take an Ohmmeter and I put the two probes onto the two metal posts of a single speaker, and measure 0 Ohms (that is, the gauge says "1" when the probes are not touching anything, and it goes down to "0" when one probe touches one of the metal posts and the other probe touches the other metal post), this means that my speakers are shorted out somewhere, correct? Or is this 'normal' -- in which case, what do I do to see if my speakers have a short? The speakers are driven by an old Creek 4040S2 amplifier. I found a manual of this amplifier, which explains that there are loudspeaker fuses INSIDE the amplifier housing. It tells me that I can replace these, but these fuses generally will blow only if there is a short in the corresponding speaker circuit. I will open the amp to inspect these fuses, but if they have blown I don't want to just replace them; i need to find out if/where there is a short in the speakers. I suppose I can believe that I did a poor job and that things have shifted inside the speakers and caused a short. But I note that BOTH speakers now register 0 ohms when i put a probe on each post. It just seemed odd to me that both speakers would fail at exactly the same time. Thanks for any light you can shed on this topic for me. Scott
  5. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    That's entirely correct. I was embarrassed by my less-than-professional soldering skills, and was worried that displaying the newly-butchered crossover would send the wrong message to the younger and more impressionable reader here. I didn't want to be seen as condoning violence towards electronic components (or worse, of actually perpetrating it :)). Would you happen either to have a schematic for the switch (or the whole crossover); or failing that; just an explanation of how it works -- that is, how each of the three switch positions connect the four connection points to each other and to the two sets of wires on the bottom of the switch. If not, I can report that I have now switched the tweeters, and it seems that the speaker that received the working tweeter is now truly and fully functional; for example, the tweeter is functional when the HFLevel switch is in all three positions. Assuming that this speaker is now "good", I can use an ohmmeter to map the swtich, and then will be able to verify if the other switch is good or not (that is, if the two switches act identically). Unfortunately for me, the 'bad' tweeter really never makes a sound; so I am now officially in the market for a tweeter. Would it therefore correct to state that the speaker has three crossover frequencies -- one for each of the three HF Level positions -- and that for frequencies well below the lowest crossover frequency AND well above the highest crossover frequency, the power output of the speaker is the same for all three positions of the HF Level switch. For frequencies between the two, moving the HF Level switch from 'decrease' to 'normal' to 'increase' shifts the balance between woofer and tweeter towards the tweetter -- and therefore it will get appreciably louder. To take some very concrete examples: I should expect that no matter which of the three HF Ievels I choose, a 440Hz sine wave will sound about the same. And the same is true for a 7040Hz sine tone. But i can expect that a 1760Hz tone will indeed get louder as I move the HF Level switch. I will user this to verify that the good speaker is indeed good. Lastly: I found some supposedly natural, undyed Irish linen at the local market; I've now done the grllles and they look GREAT. (Wood is still unchanged...) -scott
  6. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Is it possible that its the High Frequency (HF) Level three-way switch itself which is bad and needs to be replaced? First, is there some source of the actual crossover schematics of the Model 33? Perhaps even without them, someone can explain to me what that switch is and how it works (and what I would need to specify to get a replacement)? I am quite ignorant of these things, but it seems to me that the switch has FOUR separate connection points on top and TWO on the bottom, for a total of six. (see the picture below) Also, I am guessing that the three positions corresponding to 'increase' 'normal' and 'decrease' of the HF Level have the effect of connecting two adjacent connection points of the four point on top. Increase: connects the two left-most connection points Normal: connects the two middle connection points Decrease: connects the two right-most connection points I'm basing this on nothing more than looking at the switch. Now that I think of it, I could have of course taken a ohm-meter and at least verified that the two right most are connected when the switch is in the 'decease' position. Instead, foolhardy idiot that I am, I just made a short between the two right most points when the switch was on "decrease" and noticed that this made no difference in the sound. Armed with such 'proof', I decided I had had enough, and I shorted out the two middle connection points. Remember that when I moved the switch to "normal", the tweeter was silent. With the switch at "normal", I held a small copper wire to the two middle connection points -- and lo! the tweeter sprang into action. For the moment, that copper wire is not soldered in place to connect the middle connection points, and the speaker sounds great. It's fascinating to see how much better a two-way speaker sounds when the tweeter is actually working :). For my next trick, I will open the other speaker -- the one with the 'bad tweeter' that never works. Wont it be nice to discover that the switch on this speaker is completely broken, and that the tweeter works just fine? Since on the 'good' speaker it seems that the switch is broken in two out of three positions, I could hardly be surprised that the 'bad' speaker it is broken in three out of three. But I would be very grateful for some kind of validation/information: 1. that I have described correctly what the switch does 2. that it ever happens that these switches no longer function 3. a name or spec of the switch so that I can order a replacement
  7. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    OK, so unfortunately there is still a bit of a problem, even beyond the fact that I need to find another tweeter. Probably I just have to unscrew the woofer again and inspect the connections, but perhaps the cause will be obvious to one of you from the symptom: When I put everything back together, put the speakers back in their place and connected them, I was disheartened that I wasn't certain that either tweeter was in fact working. I didn't want to touch the speakers physically, in case that would knock some loose connection back into contact, but although I could hear high frequencies, I couldn't even be certain if they were coming from the tweeter or not. I learned that the crossover frequency of this speaker is 1500Hz from http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/2496-model-33-speakers/#comment-65141, so I used the great website www.audiocheck.net to generate some sine tones well below and above this threshold. At first, I thought it was clear that indeed now NEITHER tweeter was working. I even decided that this might be a good sign -- perhaps i had shorted something when soldering, but this gave me hope that the original 'bad' tweeter wasn't bad at all, it just needed to be more carefully wired. But then I switched around the "High Frequency Level" switch at the back -- and discovered: When the "high frequency level" switch is set to "Normal" or "Increase" -- both tweeters are completely silent. When the "high frequency level" switch is set to "Decrease" -- one of the tweeters seems to work just fine, and the other one remains silent. Of course, I can't really know if the working tweeter is giving a decreased volume of high frequency or not, since it produces no sound when the switch is in the other two positions. So my guess would be that one of the tweeters is actually bad and never produces any sound, while in the other speaker, I have badly soldered some connections, which is why the tweeter only works when the switch is in one of the three positions. Of course, it's possible that the 'bad' tweeter isn't bad at all, and it's just that the connectivity problem which appears in one speaker in two of the three switch positions is present in all the switch positions on the other speaker. I only post this in case it's 'obvious' to someone what my problem is. I will remove the woofers again tomorrow and check for shorts with a multimeter, etc. to see what i can determine. If anyone has suggestions for tests/probes I can do to verify the correct working of the "high frequency level" switch, I'm all ears....
  8. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    I know of other online forums where the general level of expertise and the signal-to-noise are as high as here; and I know of other online forums where the cilvility, cooperation, and helpfulness between long-standing (often expert) members and clueless noobies is as high and as deep as it is here. But it's the combination of the two -- the great expertise and the enormous civility showed when liberally sharing the knowledge -- that make this site quite unique, at least for ,me. > But I'm curious--did you find a short or something to account for the intermittent loss of sound? Why yes; I did find the cause; I tried to explain this in the post and attached pics I made on Dec. 5 above. Apologies if that I wasn't very clear there. Basically, the "voice coil lead" of the 'bad' woofer were frayed. (The voice coil lead is the wire which leads from the top of the voice coil, is glued to the woofer cone, and ends at a point on the woofer cone where it is soldered to the "tinsel" leads that go from the solder point to the woofer terminals. (Thanks to RoyC and his post of Dec. 6 above for the correct nomenclature)). In truth the voice coil lead 'wire' is a composite of several wire threads, and it had frayed to the point where the connection was broken -- but just barely, so that sometimes i would move the speaker, and knock the voice coil lead back into a connected state. I attached a video to that same post on Dec. 5 which shows how i can make and break the connection just by applying a bit of pressure with my finger to the frayed wire. I fixed this problem just by applying a bit of solder to the frayed threads to refashion the voice call lead into a solid wire. The original confusion i had was due to the following facts about the speakers as I first received them: one of the speakers had a fully functional woofer and a dead tweeter; the other speaker had a fully functional tweeter and the mainly-non-functional-but-occasionally-working woofer. So both speakers always produced sound, but the sounds were never matching. And I couldn't really even figure out at first which speaker was 'bad', because sometimes one and sometimes the other would be louder and sound fuller, depending on whether the intermittent woofer was working or not. Apologies for droning on, I just think that having a truly complete description might help the next noob to keep on plugging till s/he has great speakers again. Unfortunately, I myself am not quite done, even setting aside the fact that I still need to find a tweeter -- but i'll put my newest little problem into a separate post. My eternal gratitude to JKent, RoyC, and dhxo for the advice/help/information they/you gave so generously throughout this thread. The clarity of your posts has been transformed directly into the clarity of the sound I'm hearing as I type this; I added nothing to your posts but a soldering iron and some solder.
  9. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Boy do I feel stupid about the back plate. The fact is that when I saw those screws, I remember thinking that it seemed very odd that the circuitry should be connected to the plate TWICE. I also thought it made no sense for all those components to be connected to ground at all. I don't really understand electronics all that well, and it didn't occur to me that the solution to the riddles was that indeed the circuitry WASN'T connected to the back plate, nor to ground. Anyway, thank you for not beginning your item 1 of the previous post with "You idiot!!" So the caps are finally done, and OMG WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! It's as if the speakers were overworked and run-down tired before, and now they've had a good 10-12 hour sleep, and are bright-eyed and busy-tailed once again. If only I myself had caps that I could replace so easily to such great effect. I still have the grille cloths to renew, and a tweeter to swap out, but it's already clear that the improvement is dramatic. A truly heartfelt thanks to all who helped me with this. scott
  10. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Thanks for the explanation about the cap. A final comment and final question (famous last words, I realize): 1. Comment: Well, if you look at the picture of the electronics that are over the back plate, you will see not one but two places where various leads are soldered to a lug which is screwed directly into the back plate itself. At one of these screws, the double-lead from the 2uF cap is one of the things that's solder to the back plate screw. so there are plenty of wires that are touching the back plate. And yes, i've triple-checked that no wires are touching the back plate unintentionally. If i've missed something and the 'original' wiring (photographed) above is wrong, please let me know asap. 2. Question: Is there a correct and incorrect way to re-insert the pink insulation fluffy bricks or the calico cloth back into the speaker cabinets? Now that i know that there is a conduit pipe leading to the port, I would hate to ruin or lessen the effect it has on the sound by putting the insulation material in wrong and obstructing the flow of sound through the conduit. Scott
  11. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    I hope that all had a wonderful holiday, and that anyone enjoying the last day of the holiday today is doing something more enjoyable with the rest of her/his day than reading this post :). The long-awaited components have finally all arrived, and I began to do the job, and had to stop before I could even plug in the soldering iron: the 2uF capacitors in the speakers have one black and TWO read leads. The capacitors that arrived in the mail/post have ONE lead on each side. Although previous posts already contain pictures of both the original electronics and the new 2.2uF capacitor, I'll attach (slightly better) ones to this post for convenience. (And for my education and perhaps others to, since my hand was already down there, I took a little panorama set of shots of the inside off the cabinet; I thought someone might be amused to learn what is on the other side of the port in a "ported" design.) Returning to the matter at hand, since these are not collectors items, and I WANT MY SPEAKERS already, I'm going to note that "OBVIOUSLY" if you look at how the double-leads of the two-red-leaded capacitor are soldered to the switch there, it seems pretty clear that one of the two lead gets used when the user chooses the "normal" setting on the back, and the other is used when the user chooses the "more treble" setting on the back. I'll just solder the one lead I have to the place where the centre (center) lead on the original is soldered, and then I'll use the "normal" setting on the speaker. But if some kind soul could tell me please: 1. What kind of capacitor do I need to order, or how do I modify the regular one that i have -- to make the setup work properly (that is, with a switch at the back that emphasizes treble or bass). 2.Would it be more accurate to solder the single lead of the cap I have to the 'higher treble' setting and then use that? That is, i assumed that the two leads on the original cap correspond to "running at the full nominal 2uF" and "running at something less than the full nominal 2uF" -- but perhaps something else is really true. As a final comment, I note that from the pictures on can see very plainly that all four resistors have different ratings, and that indeed three out of 4 are rated higher than 5W. They seem to be pristine, so unless someone tells me that there's a reason to replace them, I'm certain they're attached by a better soldering job than what the caps are about to be attached via, and I'll leave them be. Thanks!! almost there, i hope. Scott
  12. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    If there's one principle I've learned in my career to date, it would be the principle: "if user aren't complaining about your product -- complaining **bitterly** about your product - chance are good that your product isn't very valuable to them." I hope that my whines about the spreadsheet showed very clearly just how valuable I think it is. As it is now, the information about which drivers are the same is partly in the letter designation that you give, partly in the comments section, and partly left as an exercise for the reader to deduce logically from the letters and the comments. It would be very useful if you replaced the letters/labels and the comments about 'being the same as...' with a single new column that just gives the complete list of model numebrs that use the same driver. Another thing that would be wonderful (if it could be done) would be to indicate when there is a bon fide replacement part available, Perhaps there just isn't ever such thing. But (for example) now that I'm in the market for a tweeter from a Model 33, I probably would jump at the chance to just buy two new tweeters that while not being originals, could 'play one on TV" .I just wouldn't know where to look, and i wouldn't really know what to ask for. It would be great, for example, if i could read in the spreadsheet that part no. <foo> at PartsExpress makes an excellent prostethic tweeter to replace the on that was originally there.
  13. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    Two steps forward, one step back (i'm trying to be optimistic about this...) 1. So I finally swapped the two tweeters between the two speakers, as a simple way to see if the tweeters themselves or the electronics (caps etc) were causing one tweeter to be silent. And I'm sorry to say that it's the tweeter (when I swapped them, the tweeter that had been working continued to work, and the one that was silent continued to be silent. In other words, swapping the tweeters caused a swap in which speaker was defective). Bottom line is that I am now officially on the lookout for a tweeter to replace an original one in my KLH Model Thirty-Threes. I note that the aphenos.net spreadsheet cited above is a bit confusing about this tweeter. It asserts that the model 33 tweeter is the same as the model six tweeter -- but it doesn't say which of the two Model 6 styles ("early" or "late") matches. (Though it does make the positive assertion that the two styles of model 6 speakers do have different style tweeters). Also, the tweeters of this type are sometimes listed as being 1-5/8" and sometimes listed as being 1.63" -- since 1-5/8 == 1.625, this is not exactly a contradiction, but it makes it harder to see which models have the "same" tweeter. In the end, I *think* that the spreadsheet seems to imply that the same 1-5/8" tweeters were used by KLH in Models 33, 30, 17 and 6 (late style). Do people have an opinion about whether I just need to find one good tweeter of the above type? Or do i need to replace the pair of tweeters with a pair of tweeters, once I am replacing one of them? 2. Thank you for all the suggestions about exactly where to buy the capacitors and which to buy. However, I live for the moment in the UK, , and so I am trying to buy locally. The model 33s need 2uF and 8uF capacitors -- but I'm having a slightly tricky time finding 2uF ones. Here the caps I seem to find all are rated 2.2uF. Does this make a difference? Actually, the specific ones i found are Jellyfish Audio 2.2uF 400V MKP Bipolar Audio Capacitors (the item code from Jellyfish Audio is B00H7GN1R0). Any thoughts about how appropriate or not these are? I attach a pic of the cap to this post as well.
  14. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    My thanks to you both for the information, including the correction that my previous post referred incorrectly to the foam gaskets as "surrounds." I only needed a minute with google images to understand the difference. Apologies for my earlier confusion. I imagine that I'll find elsewhere on this site an answer to what might prove to be my last question for this little project: what is the specification of the two kinds of fabric I need to purchase to replace the front grille panels? The thin wooden cut-out frames onto which the fabric is stapled seems to me to be in perfect shape; I doubt I need to replace those unless you tell me that the staple-holes that would be created by changing the fabric will be some sort of acoustic problem. But this seems very unlikely to me. The fabric that is there now (which I assume is the original material) has two layers: a finely-meshed black burlap underneath a more coarsely- grained golden/beige burlap. I'd like some advice on what I need to buy if I want to renew/refresh/restore the original sound. Actually, if this presents an opportunity to **improve** on the original, I'm very open to learning how I should go about doing that. BTW, while on this topic: I've noticed that 'everyone' seems to note to me how unusual (and perhaps unique) is the 'ported' design of the KLH Model Thirty-Three speakers. Here is a pic of the front and back of the fabric grille, plus a close-up to show the different textures of the two fabrics. I thought some people might be interested to see that the cut-out for the speaker drivers are circles, while the cut-out for the port is a square (while the port itself is a circle, of course). I assume there is some reason; I bet, for example, that the cut-outs for their three-way speakers are three circles.
  15. Scott

    Woofer woes on 1 of 2 KLH Model Thirty-threes

    The first two emails I sent to the lady from Craigslist got no reply; the third email caused the ad to be removed from Craigslist. So I guess I was too slow from the beginning for that. Well now that my friend has offered to pick up a craigslist purchase for me, I can be faster on the mark next time.... Except that I might not need to be at all. Because I have fixed the woofer :). Faced with no replacement on the horizon, I remembered how undamaged the silent woofer had looked, and I thought I'd give it one last really good look. I attach some pics of what I saw: the wire leads which are glued onto the paper of the cone itself seemed a bit frayed. So I put on an endless loop .wav file (just to have sound continuously playing, and lo! when I put my fat finger right on the spot which seemed frayed, the speaker played. Unfortunately, I'm a horrible solderer, and it took me a good hour to get a serviceable gob of solder to connect the wires that are glued to the cone, leading to the voicecoil and the wire leading away from the cone back out to the electronics of the speakers. I don't include a pic of the finished job because it looks terrible and I'm not at all proud of it. But the two woofers seem to output identical sound now. Question: Is there some REASON that the wires are in fact glued to the woofer cone itself? Is it just so that they aren't loose and won't buzz, or is there some electrical property that is important for the speaker operation that is the result of the wires being glued to the cone. Alas, a quick look at the silent tweeter didn't reveal any leads; I will test them tomorrow. But if I understand your post above, Kent, the silent tweeter might be fixed by replacing the caps. So i'll do that next, and won't consider replacing the silent tweeter until I've done that. Question: does one normally remove the electronics from the speaker cabinet and replace the capacitors (and perhaps resistors) outside the cabinet, and then put the finished/restored/repaired electronics into the cabinet? Or is it better/simpler just to replace them in situ, without removing anything from the cabinet but the items to be replaced. Question: I'm pretty sure that I'm going to want to replace the foam surrounds as well. Do I need to spend all that money on ebay to buy new foam surrounds, or can I just cut out my own from a similar piece of foam rubber. Can I use some thing sheets of ordinary foam rubber, or does it need to be the same 'plastic-y' thin sort. (and if so, does that sort of foam have a name that I can ask for? Just hoping to save some more pennies. ) I'll post about the tweeters once the caps are done. The attached pics show what I could see by visual inspection. And the uploaded video shows how I can reconnect the broken connection with my finger. You can hear the sound creaking when the connection isn't great. VID_20161204_125506.mp4
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