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frankmarsi

Everyone Wants AR-LST's

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3-5-18
AR-LST wanna-be?  Or, everyone wants LST’s.  Or, do most AR people dream of having LST's?
However, there are folks out there that will do almost anything to have or approximate and set of LST speakers. We've all seen home-made versions, if not do a search and see for yourself.  Years ago before I acquired mine, I too dreamed of making a pair. 
At the time,  in 1972 the problem was how to seek out all of the required raw speakers. I wasn't even pondering X-over's.
The more I though about it, the more it seemed ‘not-do-able’. Fortunately, I then acquired mine in 1987 and dispenced with such mental wandering.
Before that, I lived in constant frustration about NOT having AR-LST's.

Regarding these seemingly wanna-be constructed big boxes, for obvious reasons, I don’t think they’d measure up to the quality of sound that emanates from ‘real’ LST’s.

Though, being a speaker loving type of guy, I'd still be curious as to how these seemingly well and probably home made boxes do sound. In the mid 1960's I attempted a few self made speaker boxes but, the attempt simply ended in frustration and I gave up due to being 16 years old, I didn't have the where with all or correct tools, measurements or raw speakers like AR was producing. At that time, to me a X-over was a simple capacitor. In 1968 I did buy two pre-made typical ported speaker boxes (about the size of 3a's) on Cortland Street on 'Radio-Row' in Manhattan along with Jensen 12 inch drivers that I ripped out of my Fender Bassman Amp, and two horns with one capacitor. Results? Not what I had hoped for.

Admittedly, whom ever constructed these did a decent job and the raw speakers used aren't bad ones. Overall a very good effort and I'd still be interested in how they sound. The builder apparently had a good idea of what these are and their operation, while, I'm sure they knew of the LST.  I'm thinking these might have been good in a small club.

But, as mankind would have it, 'where there is a will, there is a way.'  If it were my project, I would've chosen different drivers but, hindsight is always 20/20. But, like I said, these may have been built for nite-club use.
FM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speakers-Cross-Between-Speakerlab-7-and-AR-LST-with-EV-Drivers/142711446854?hash=item213a43dd46:g:37AAAOSwGvZanPz2

LST wanna be web .jpg

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I'm generally put-off by horns but, they too have a diaphragm like domed speakers, the horn is used for radiation and spread.

Horns have been around for many years, many being the first speakers ever available.

DavidR, "we all have places to go", "we all have places to go", "Look at the big man with the horn".*

*(from a current commercial on TV about Washington crossing the Delaware river).

FM

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David, I feel the same as you do. Though a number of makers have ways of making certain higher priced ones to allow ribbons and wires in speaker construction sound really good. Most are costly for the better ones though at some point 'wires' require rebuilding.

FM

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1 hour ago, DavidR said:

Horns are HARSH to  my ears. RIBBONS are shrill.

What do you all think of electrostatics?   I auditioned some Martin Logan's about 12 years ago and was really impressed by the highs.   However, there was little off axis dispersion and that bothered me.

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I agree with DavidR, but I kind of think the perceived shrillness of ribbon tweeters might be confined to the smaller versions now found in multi-way dynamic designs and not the types used in full-range panels.

We've owned full-range electrostatic speakers (Acoustat 2+2 ) as well as speakers from Magnepan, which utilize both true ribbon as well as quasi-ribbon drivers in their flat-panel designs.

The one thing that these panel systems usually have in common is a projection of space. Now, this wouldn't be the attempt at creating a sense of space that designs like the Bose 901 or certain other dynamic loudspeakers that utilize additional ambient/reflecting drivers try, but rather a better-realized re-creation of the original performance space.  Large flat panels are not practical for many listeners, as they demand often imperfect/unrealistic solutions to room placement as well as with the associated amplification, and can often present more problems than they address. That said, under the right circumstances, listening to a large-panel design can be a transformative experience.

Two notes: AR surround's observation of a problem in off-axis listening is valid, and also points to an issue of placement; even in showrooms - maybe especially in showrooms - panels can be tough to audition. You can get a feel for things, but you simply will not know how the system sounds until you get it home, and begin the process of futzing with room & amplifier integration. My comments regarding the re-creation of the original environment only apply to un-mixed acoustical recordings, and not processed, multi-tracked studio efforts.

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1 hour ago, AR surround said:

What do you all think of electrostatics?   I auditioned some Martin Logan's about 12 years ago and was really impressed by the highs.   However, there was little off axis dispersion and that bothered me.

Do you mean THIN speakers?

I heard some ML's at Magnolia Theater/Best Buy. Same as you: as soon as I stepped just to the edge of the speaker, I'd lose the sound, except some bass.

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Any dipole speaker, with front and rear output, will exhibit side cancellation.  It happens when the rear out-of-phase signal wraps around to the front of the speaker.  Where the in-phase and out-of-phase content meet, they cancel out.

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38 minutes ago, Stimpy said:

Any dipole speaker, with front and rear output, will exhibit side cancellation.  It happens when the rear out-of-phase signal wraps around to the front of the speaker.  Where the in-phase and out-of-phase content meet, they cancel out.

Like Matter vs Anti-Matter; except not violently.

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Add a plasma tweeter, and you'd be set!

I also have 2 different pair of dipole, open baffle speakers.  Both from the same brand.  Just a small and a large version of each model.  Mine use planar mids and tweeters, but use conventional enclosed woofers for bass.  So no worries of wrap around cancellation in the base.

 

 

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