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cbolen

AR3a originals?

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hey everyone. can any of the wise sages of classicspeakerpages tell me if these drivers appear to be original to these AR3a's? and do these woofers appear salvagable?

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woofer5.jpg

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Those mids and tweeters appear original and look to be in fine shape. Woofers appear original, too, but it's a bit unusual to see the thick concentric damping ring on the cone of the woofer with the round ferrite magnet and stamped basket. This version of 12" woofer is not catalogued in the 3a restoration manual, but others will chime in with more specifics about this particular woofer. 

Cabinet front moulding appears to be stained birch or maybe cherry? And if your second pic shows a partial side view in the back right, maybe these cabinets are stained utility pine? 

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@cbolen Yes, all the drivers are original. The woofers are very rare. If the woofer spiders and voice coils are ok, you only need to refoam them. Since this type of woofer is rare, could you please post clear photos of all the dates printed both on the ferrites and the bottom plates ? Thank you.

 

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54 minutes ago, fedeleluigi said:

@cbolen Yes, all the drivers are original. The woofers are very rare. If the woofer spiders and voice coils are ok, you only need to refoam them. Since this type of woofer is rare, could you please post clear photos of all the dates printed both on the ferrites and the bottom plates ? Thank you.

 

Agreed....These are good examples of the earliest version of the foam surround/ferrite magnet woofer, which had a foam ring on the cone like that of the cloth surround/alnico magnet woofer. These woofers also did not have a mounting ring on the frame for the surround.

I've never seen a date later than early 1971 on any of these woofers.

What are the serial numbers on the cabinet labels?

Roy

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man, I need these like I need a hole in the head. 😵 $300 and an hour one way... refoaming is within my skillset. ;) I'm thinking I would be stupid to NOT. considering there is a lone intact pair of AR3s available in my area and I believe the seller is asking $2200. 

@fedeleluigi - don't have them in my possession (yet). if/when they are, I certainly will post more/better photos.

@RoyC - I'm gonna try to post photos of the backs... I'm having size issues tho...

speakers2.jpg

speakers10.jpg

speakers1.jpg

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Certainly pine!...but stained. The one on left is certainly the one I would love to find. I have had a 3a for two years now looking for a single that has that great graining in it that matches. 

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43 minutes ago, lakecat said:

...pine!...but stained...

lakecat, was it you that successfully "stripped" the stain from a pair of pine AR's not long ago? Whoever posted that project, it was an impressive restoration, and I cannot remember which speaker model it was. 

My feelings have been stated here before about stained utility pine cabinets, but this pair has been handled with a reasonably deft touch - - - i.e., they are not trying to replicate walnut. Because of the pine cabinets, and the rare woofers, and the seemingly excellent mid/tweet drivers, to me this is a very interesting pair of available speakers at a very attractive asking price. Grilles and badges?.....even better!

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37 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

his is a very interesting pair of available speakers at a very attractive asking price. Grilles and badges?.....even better!

replacement grille clothe I believe. great shape. badges are intact.

if all goes as planned, I'll be bringing these guys home tomorrow morning. 😁 

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50 minutes ago, cbolen said:

...bringing these guys home tomorrow morning...

Good news. :) Limit your morning coffee intake so you don't bung up those cabinets due to over enthusiasm. :lol:

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7 hours ago, cbolen said:

@RoyC - I'm gonna try to post photos of the backs... I'm having size issues tho...

speakers2.jpg

 

 

The serial numbers are consistent with the transition to the foam surround/ferrite magnet woofer.

Roy

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12 hours ago, ra.ra said:

lakecat, was it you that successfully "stripped" the stain from a pair of pine AR's not long ago? Whoever posted that project, it was an impressive restoration, and I cannot remember which speaker model it was. 

My feelings have been stated here before about stained utility pine cabinets, but this pair has been handled with a reasonably deft touch - - - i.e., they are not trying to replicate walnut. Because of the pine cabinets, and the rare woofers, and the seemingly excellent mid/tweet drivers, to me this is a very interesting pair of available speakers at a very attractive asking price. Grilles and badges?.....even better!

Yes...twas me with that pine heathen! Yet to find a match....and it is a 3a with alnico woofer. Maybe someday...sigh.

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36 minutes ago, cbolen said:

I got 'em! 😎 details and photos to come

Nothing better than AR's in the backseat headed home.Especially rare ones like those. Congratulations.

 

14 minutes ago, lakecat said:

Yes...twas me with that pine heathen! Yet to find a match....and it is a 3a with alnico woofer. Maybe someday...sigh.

That was a very informative thread about removing stain from pine cabinets. Laundry bleach and scraping with utility razor blades, whoknew?

I hope it is OK to post a link to your post because it may be relevant to the present discussion.

 

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On 7/27/2019 at 10:25 AM, RoyC said:

These woofers also did not have a mounting ring on the frame for the surround.

@RoyC @fedeleluigi and everyone else interested:

Roy - I'm curious about your statement above. I have SOME experience with refoaming but not alot. these don't look like anything special from that aspect tho?? could you link me up with the correct foams? I prefer SimplySpeakers.com - I like thier glue.

I got these guys home, here come the photos to keep things clear, I'm going to make a post for each woofer... here's #1...

this one looks like it says 1974 to me Roy? "MAR 17 1974"?

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woofer #2...

what is the rubbery looking ring on the cone? if these test ok, can I refoam and use with these center rings cracked like this? and it looks like I get to make my 1st attempt at popping out dented dust caps with the 1st one. 

I can't make out the printing on this one. I resized these to upload... if anyone thinks they might be able to read the date from the UNresized photo, please let me know. 

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and the cabinets... front at least... I'm proud to add these beauties to my collection. can't wait to hear 'em sing. :) 

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On 7/29/2019 at 3:17 PM, cbolen said:

 here's #1...this one looks like it says 1974 to me Roy? "MAR 17 1974"? 

20190729_044417.jpg

20190729_043710.jpg

 

On 7/29/2019 at 3:21 PM, cbolen said:

woofer #2...

20190729_043835.jpg

20190729_043835.jpg.55650c8335924ba3514f90661868a36a.jpg.cf1d831b02b672aa5443b23ffed8ecf4.jpg

 

@cbolen thank you very much for the woofer photos with dates.

The date printed on woofer #1  should be MAR 17 1971. 

About woofer #2 I can clearly read only the month (MAR). Also if not leagible the year is almost certainly the same as the other woofer (1971) since your 3a have very close serial numbers.

Please inspect carefully the sides of ferrite because the dates were also printed there.

 

 

 

 

In the attached pictures you can see a  woofer made only one month later (APR 22 1971). You can note that  just one month later AR had switched to the so called "long wire" woofer. This woofer  had a mounting ring on the frame for the surround and no damping ring on the paper cone.

228628964_woofer22apr1971front.jpg.7613c4fe5809e8da7e18ec5e3b4f21d7.jpg

 

528521522_woofer22apr1971side.thumb.jpg.d57c0cfa896073e96091e73dc6a00e28.jpg

a

313167215_woofer22apr1971.thumb.jpg.9f16949ee06da3994921c685416aaf57.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, cbolen said:

@RoyC @fedeleluigi and everyone else interested:

Roy - I'm curious about your statement above. I have SOME experience with refoaming but not alot. these don't look like anything special from that aspect tho?? could you link me up with the correct foams? I prefer SimplySpeakers.com - I like thier glue.

I got these guys home, here come the photos to keep things clear, I'm going to make a post for each woofer... here's #1...

this one looks like it says 1974 to me Roy? "MAR 17 1974"?

20190729_044417.jpg

20190729_043710.jpg

20190729_043655.jpg

The unique woofer magnets (note the indentations), the woofer cone, and missing surround mounting ring place the woofers firmly in the 1970-1971 era. I don't know anything about Simply Speakers replacement. This woofer requires the same surround used on later iterations, though I seem to recall the outer edge barely making it to the basket with this version of the woofer.

The ring on the cone is foam, and will be fine as is. Don't mess with it.

Roy

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9 minutes ago, RoyC said:

missing surround mounting ring

@RoyC - I'm confused by this? am I missing parts? do I need these "missing surround mounting rings" in order to re-assemble?

 

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@cbolen your woofers didn't originally have the so called "masonite ring" on the frame (see the photo of the woofer I posted as it has the masonite ring). In your woofers the foam suspension was directly glued to the metal frame. If you want to keep your woofers original you don't have to use any masonite ring. Later AR used a masonite ring glued to the woofer frame and the foam suspension was glued to that masonite ring. 

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oh! so by "missing",  the meaning here is my woofers were made before this feature was added? not that I am missing pieces? that's how I was reading it. 

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5 minutes ago, cbolen said:

the meaning here is my woofers were made before this feature was added?

yes. 

5 minutes ago, cbolen said:

ot that I am missing pieces?

no, you are not missing any pieces.

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sweeeeeeet! thanks for clarifying. 😁 I'm going to do some low volume testing on the woofers (as well as the other drivers) this afternoon. if all sounds well, I'll be ordering new foams this evening. 🙂 

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9 minutes ago, cbolen said:

sweeeeeeet! thanks for clarifying. 😁 I'm going to do some low volume testing on the woofers (as well as the other drivers) this afternoon. if all sounds well, I'll be ordering new foams this evening. 🙂 

when you can , would you please inspect carefully the sides of the ferrite magnets because the manufacturing dates were also printed there?

thank you

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