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Aadams

AR98Ls crossover removal

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There are no threads that I can find on removal of this style crossover seen below.  These are images of an AR98ls crossover.  It looks to me like installing the Lsi components on this board will require the removal of the entire masonite panel.  Does anyone here have suggestions for a "best practice" or perhaps "techniques to avoid" in removing the masonite panel and PC board without damage?  The picture of the board on the right is an example exactly like the ones in my cabinets.

Adams

image.png.69a8d67582204aa8107a46aa5287d4d8.png

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To replace caps you will need to un-solder some if not all solder points. You could leave the board intact and un-solder the coils and binding post terminals, flip over the board and get at the caps.

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2 hours ago, DavidR said:

To replace caps you will need to un-solder some if not all solder points. You could leave the board intact and un-solder the coils and binding post terminals, flip over the board and get at the caps.

Thanks.  I have read about some adventures doing what you describe.  Desoldering the binding posts attachment in situ is apparently a real pain and requires technique . If I were more experienced with more than basic tools perhaps I would try pulling the pc board but the odds are heavily in favor of my shipping the boards for repair, so I am looking for the best way get the masonite board out whole and reusable if possible. 

Adams

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If me, I'd dread fighting out that masonite board.  It's stapled and glued down.  Not easy to pull, especially intact.  I'd rather leave the board in place, and unsolder the PC board.  A decent iron and a good solder sucker should be enough to get the job done.

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Even if you remove the board or find another set you will still need to de-solder lots of solder points to be able to flip the board over AND hopefully they didn't glue down the side with the caps.

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I've had some success by removing the staples, and then lining up the end of a short 2x4 against the outside of the crossover board & cautiously smacking it with a hammer. Getting the staples out is tedious, and as mentioned, there's going to be a lot of de-soldering, no matter what. ☹️

 

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6 hours ago, ar_pro said:

I've had some success by removing the staples, and then lining up the end of a short 2x4 against the outside of the crossover board & cautiously smacking it with a hammer. Getting the staples out is tedious, and as mentioned, there's going to be a lot of de-soldering, no matter what. ☹️

 

I'll try this.  The soldering will be done by someone else but I can handle the 2x4 part. I shouldn't be surprised. There's always a 2x4 and duct tape lurking in the background.

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I want to close the loop on this thread.  I came close to removing the Masonite boards but was advised to hold off to wait for a better idea.  Meanwhile I found, in this forum from 2010, where member Briodo posted this thread

 http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/6040-ar9lsi-info-needed/&_fromLogin=1   containing another link to a pdf that explains in detail, a procedure to recap this specific board.  I have included a summary image below.

I will not be removing my boards or recapping because I decided to pay an expert to read the circuit diagrams and tell me what exactly needed to be done to install the LS “improvement”. 

 It turns out the “improvement” does not change any capacitor values and is limited to additional resistors and polarity changes that can performed without molesting the boards.  I got lucky.

Adams

image.jpeg.76464ee33c1713084f8be29d18886f1c.jpeg

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Sincere apologies;

looks like you've tidied this up ....

but from "other" thread you'd said If you place CR65s atop AR58s and bi amp using an equalizer on each amp it works great

for me, the novice, that was a great thread.

I guess what I might not grasp is WHY [details details Lol!] "bi amp using an equalizer on each amp"

1st, I've no idea what bi amp is Lol!

So 2nd, WHY is qualified -- because cripes I'd be last guy to skip what/how first -- beings WHY is ridiculously open ended.

Assuming you had to simply equalize the power to the speakers is all. 

Sometimes is fair to assume (e.g.,) I've actually got some sort Receiver that touts 80W to main A channel and 60W to B. Meaning I think that's factually true that somewheres here I own that type receiver. Tho it could be surround sound receiver. I know for sure I've other unit(s) that power 100W A, and 100W B,  

Long/short (and I'd piggybacked war & peace length post Lol! apologies) upon the hitherto abandoned "using-small-bookshelf-speakers-to-create-a-uniform-spacious" but to spare the -- industry -- shall we say ... having PRETTY GOOD results simply placing SONY SS-B1000 [bookshelf] atop JBL HLS820 [floor] speakers. But I'm strongly considering upgrade [at least] the little SONYs to BA CR65 in addition Lol! to re-capping the JBL (got the caps here already) AND mod (at least the insulation & maybe the tweeter) the SONYs as well -- since they'll go atop another (g/f's or my house) floor-stander.

But this eq'ing thing -- tho not surprising -- wonder about the real necessity. And expense, of course.

This [all] isn't exactly front-burner, but I'm intrigued.

Thanks Kindly,

Mo

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:37 PM, Mo Money said:

guess what I might not grasp is WHY [details details Lol!] "bi amp using an equalizer on each amp"

1st, I've no idea what bi amp is Lol!

So 2nd, WHY is qualified -- because cripes I'd be last guy to skip what/how first -- beings WHY is ridiculously open ended.

Assuming you had to simply equalize the power to the speakers is all. 

My apologies MO

Talk about thread creep…………   I never expected that BA CR65 thread to land in a thread about the AR98.  If you are interested in using the CR65s in that way you should begin reading the thread at the post of April 7, 2018.  The “two equalizer” version with two dissimilar amps works but is very difficult to manage and no longer exists.  I just recently added an edit to the first post of the thread stating that readers should skip to that date.  The simplified and way better version is still in use as the tops to an AR12 inch passive woofer.

Adams

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Lol! tryin' not to be TOO creepy but the "speaker collection" we've got here is "complicated" to-say-the-least -- but It's all good;

Meaning that we've got a BUNCH (handful) of older speaker pairs -- w/ only 1 - a single pair -- APPROACHING "the extreme modest end" of so-called high-end. Trying to outfit TWO homes for Classic Rock & "some" classical music, i.e.,  CD's. 

In concrete terms we're re-capping the JBL HLS820s as-we-speak (back-in-the-day [circa 2002] $600/list or let's say "somebody prolly paid around $500" and might have been "a little disappointed w/ the tweeters.")

Oh well.

For 20 bucks in parts, we "almost" got 'em re-vamped so I've (presently) got maybe a tad bit over a c-note in 'em ... 4 (two pairs) of larger drivers appear to be immaculate. ... JBL glued magnets OVER the big magnets so  doin' it on a shoestring -- (hypothetically?) doin' everything they could -- pretty solid 1.5 meter tall cabs -- for their time fairly elegant cheap chic Lol! ... on the XO, so they used max engineering IQ w/r/t to their $$ margin on (essentially?) loud-but-fair-sounding ('cept maybe in the high-end at volumes) floor-stander.

I'm HIGHLY in-expert on speakers (electronics) but these are (about) biggest investment (so far). Limpin' along not crippled completely.

When the little SONY ss-b1000 were placed atop the JBLs in 4-channel stereo ... voila!  SURE SEEMED TO BE AN IMPROVEMENT MID/HIGH volume, watts, whatever.

Wouldn't BE posting IF we "had the answers" or rather, perhaps, unless/until thinking maybe stumbled across something, anything. "Don't know where you're goin', almost any road gets you there?"

SO PRESENTLY BOILS DOWN TO THIS;

We're gonna buy EITHER the

BA CR65 (Used VGC $60 inc. Shipping)

-OR-  

BIC DV62si (New $117 inc. Shipping).

This is a shot in the dark ... were the capacitors in the BA CR65 electrolytic? They're 10 years old. Maybe 15.

Granted, the BIC DV62si were maybe assembled 5 years ago? They're [BIC] still "in stock New" amazon.com ... but been on the market xyz years? Maybe they're film caps. ANYBODY, SOMEWHERES, might "know the answer this question." Apologies for overstating the obvious. Its (now) not really the $$. I'd like to buy the BEST bookshelf I can for (around) $100.

SO:

BA CR65 (Used VGC $60 inc. Shipping)

-OR-  

BIC DV62si

???

Thanks kindly, no emergency obviously, and I'm 1/2way sure "If you are interested in using the CR65s in that way you should begin reading the thread at the post of April 7, 2018." is actually what carried me HERE but I'll double-check. Meaning, the OP on the BA CR 65/75/85 thread had actually mentioned "I'm carrying the thread over to the mods/tweaks arena" ... still I'll look. It's all gravy. I'm gonna do some A-B comparisons on "older" bookshelfs - ultimately - that is SOME likelihood nobody's yet reported on. Can (and will) report on listening tests it's electronics (ultimately) that's presently a small barrier --

PS: Then I saw this morning  the BIC bookshelf - likewise sells cheap ... good reviews despite some sort of Ed Frias upgrade that nobody seems so thrilled about any longer Lol! Last, I could go all-out Lol! and spend $140 (inc. Shipping) on a Klipsch KB-15 Icon ... That's a helluva lot to ask, but ya never know.

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Ah, FWIW my JBL HLS 820 are these (... or rather their bigger brother ... these are simply 620's stock photo but close enough gov work

 Lol!) --- cheap tweeter 10mm hard poly [flanged into a faux-horn-config] again IN-TANDEM w/ bookshelves atop serve their purpose (allegedly). This is "experimental" stage. So-far-so-good if ya read-between-all-the-lines ...

jbl-hls-820-floor-standing-speaker.jpg.7512a24576e7db8efc001652b2350af7.jpg

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MO

You might want to start a thread in the mods and tweaks or other speakers forums.   This is getting way off of AR topics.

 

14 minutes ago, Mo Money said:

over to the mods/tweaks arena"

BTW I thought you were referencing the M  & T thread and not the BA thread.  You also might want to take a look at the Ligs 92 db thread.

Adams

 

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Ah yes --- Using small bookshelf speakers to create a uniform spacious soundfield

 

was THAT thread that carries "us" this direction.

My (rough) understanding was OP (or another?) was stacking bookshelf speakers atop floor speakers -- is all. Doesn't SEEM all that novel but who knows

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Could start another thread of course, but you're heavily knowledgeable about a speaker I'm at least 50/50 inclined to buy today.

cr/65/75/85

that's 50/50 at the ROOT beings not much evidence of "direct compare" to those BA's with slightly more modern conterparts. But you MIGHT know, regardless. Is there THAT much new under the sun passive bookshelf BESIDES mylar caps? maybe there is? but more than MINUTE amount of real-world "reportage" was what I'd found after hour of google search. No biggie. Some things are crap-shoot lol

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And it's funny, and this isn't trivial, but I see (just now) e.g., these comments w/r/t the BIC bookshelf $117 speaker:

I have completely redesigned the crossover. Carrying over only one coil. I also designed a cabinet damping mod that works well with the crossover mod 4 years agoIn reply toan earlier post

AND

For myself, it would have made more sense to spend a little more and get a pair of lower-end Klipsch speakers. That being said, they are a pretty good quality pair of speakers 

&tc &tc &tc.

IT'S EASY (is my 1st impression) TO BE MISLED BY "rave reviews" (and its just anecdotal) of any $100 speaker such as BIC DV62si.

... an example maybe not all that illustrative. I'm willing (have the time) to do a little soldering. Ultimately, if "mods/or/no/mods" the CR65 (i could buy noe for $60) sounding QUITE similar "get a pair of lower-end Klipsch speakers" then sometimes easiest is best. Nobody CAN make decisions FOR anybody, but this forum has some EXCELLENT (and very value-neutral) opinions and I'm quite grateful -- regardless of how things shake out. I WILL INDEED BE DOING SOME SOLDERING ON SOME SPEAKERS (no choice!) in my little bevy of bookshelf and fllor speakers, It's INEVITABLE. 

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14 minutes ago, Mo Money said:

Could start another thread of course, but you're heavily knowledgeable about a speaker I'm at least 50/50 inclined to buy today.

cr/65/75/85

Start a thread in Mods and Tweaks or other speakers and we can talk.  Not sure about what you are wanting to do if it is like what is in this thread below  Then the CR65 is your best bet.

See you in mods and tweaks or Other speakers.

Adams

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I think -- in a major respect -- is actually slightly simpler than that.

I don't mind having to e.q. speakers.

But a BASE decision is:

Is the CR65  favorably (w/in margins) comparable to a Klipsch KB-15 Icon??

Not sure anything could be simpler. But surprisingly difficult to find any answer to that Q. Lol!

Somebody might know.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Mo Money said:

I think -- in a major respect -- is actually slightly simpler than that.

I don't mind having to e.q. speakers.

But a BASE decision is:

Is the CR65  favorably (w/in margins) comparable to a Klipsch KB-15 Icon??

Not sure anything could be simpler. But surprisingly difficult to find any answer to that Q. Lol!

Somebody might know.  

 

If you intend to use a single pair there will be no appreciable difference.  Multiples I would go with the CR65.    Neither speaker will do well below 120hz.

Adams

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