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AR-2xa?

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I just came upon grills for AR-2xa's. There is no mention of this model in the library. Can we assume they were sold about the same time as the 4xa, following the 4x and 2ax era? The grills are slightly too large to fit the 2ax cabinet. Anyone have info on this model?...Tom, Steve?

Roy

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>I just came upon grills for AR-2xa's. There is no mention of

>this model in the library. Can we assume they were sold about

>the same time as the 4xa, following the 4x and 2ax era? The

>grills are slightly too large to fit the 2ax cabinet. Anyone

>have info on this model?...Tom, Steve?

>

>Roy

Roy,

The AR-2xa was apparently the European "Improved" version of the AR-2ax, never sold in the US, and it had the thin-molding cabinet similar to the AR-3a-Improved, shown below. Ironically, the AR-2ax was also available in an European version, with the same grill. The grill panel is larger and the grill material is a dark weave, quite similar to the 40-year earlier AR-2 grill color.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/dc/user_files/498.jpg

AR-3a-Improved with European-preferred thin-grill molding.

--Tom Tyson

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Thanks Tom...Were the "European" versions ever sold in Canada by any chance? I've seen some sold on Ebay that were located there, not to mention a number of them here in NY.

Roy

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>Thanks Tom...Were the "European" versions ever sold in Canada

>by any chance? I've seen some sold on Ebay that were located

>there, not to mention a number of them here in NY.

>

>Roy

Roy,

I have no idea where those models were marketed, but probably some did come into Canada, as well as in the US. Bitburg in Germany, among other European military stores, also sold zillions of AR speakers to servicemen over the years, but most were the standard US models that were shipped to Europe (Germany) to be sold there to servicemen.

I think that most of the "European" versions were made in AR's two European plants, and were distributed mainly overseas. I am sure that some came back to the states, but I don't know the situation other than servicemen and others returning to the states with their speakers. I do know that the AR-3a-Improved and other models of this type were not sold in the US.

Steve F might have some insight into these models as well.

--Tom Tyson

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AR-3a Improved is an alternative before the AR-10Pi and AR-11 came along. Hong Kong’s weather is mostly moist, wet or humid! The pots in the AR-3a had started to corrode before the 5 years warranty was reached. I suspect the AR-3a Improved was designed to full fill the request of the Hong Kong exclusive AR importer Ming Fat Company for simply removing the pots and substitute with switches. I had seen more AR-3a Improved in Hong Kong used stereo stores than anywhere else. Used Hifi stores have their gears stacked up like Garage Sales in the U.S. The Buying Power of Southeast Asia was tremendous!

In the mid ’90, many Hong Kong families had immigrated to Canada and Australia before the 1997 Red China took over. The extra heavy cargo loads are allowed for these families to have their beloved speakers and HiFi gears to come along…

Minh Luong

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AR was "this close" to marketing the 3a Improved in the US in the spring of 1974, but had a change of heart at the last minute. With the 10Pi and 11 less than a year away, there would have been no valid reason to try to re-introduce a 3a variant at that time.

The same holds true for the 2xa, although as far as I know, that model was never even contemplated for the US market.

Steve F.

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>AR was "this close" to marketing the 3a Improved in the US in

>the spring of 1974, but had a change of heart at the last

>minute. With the 10Pi and 11 less than a year away, there

>would have been no valid reason to try to re-introduce a 3a

>variant at that time.

>The same holds true for the 2xa, although as far as I know,

>that model was never even contemplated for the US market.

>

>Steve F.

Steve and Minh,

I know that the AR-3a Improved had a two-position toggle switch in lieu of the two level controls. There was an "A" position and "B" position on a single toggle switch. Did this represent two different settings for both the midrange and tweeter, or just the tweeter, or what?

How did the AR-2xa differ from the AR-2ax of that vintage?

Thanks,

--Tom Tyson

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I think the A/B switch has A for flat and B for -3db for both midrange and tweeter setting to maintain the tonal balance of the hi-range and midrange relation. I didn¡¦t own a pair of AR-3a improved to find out for myself what the crossover is like. I had tried to bid on a pair on Ebay to find out the answer but too busy to follow up at the end and lost my chance!

I have a pair of late AR-3a speakers use AR-3a Improved cabinet with original AR-3a crossovers(See photo, I had upgrade the tweeters to a pair of new Tonegen tweeters with Ferro fluid for higher power handling). By now AR really pay attention to the diffraction of the thick frame on the original AR-3a cabinet and try to marketing the AR-3a with narrow frame in the U.S. After some consideration AR end up holding back the production plan until Victor Campos AR-10 Pi and AR-11 came along for a complete change over...

Minh Luong

post-101112-1118628934.jpg

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Minh, what was Victor Campos' connection to the 10 Pi and 11? Was he a designer or engineer for the systems?

I know that he was with Adcom in the '80s, but I'm unfamiliar with his contributions to AR.

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Tom may be able to answer this question with more details. All I know is Victor Campos started with KLH and move to AR around the time when Roy¡¦s contract was up with AR. He had work with Bob Berkovitz for a while at AR and end up taken the task of making the AR-10Pi as the modern version of the AR-3a mainly for the modification of the crossover to fit different speaker placement and compensation and so for¡K the lower crossover point was changed from the 575Hz to 525Hz. And the tweeters now employ the coated fabric with Ferro fluid for high power handling. The AR-10Pi speakers and Live vs. Recorded with the AR-10Pi was a real marketing deal to bring back the AR Fame. Later on he came up with the less expensive alternative AR-11 and involved with the original AR-9 as well. Beside AR, Victor had worked for NAD and ADCOM. I think his Masterpiece was the GFA 5802.

Minh Luong

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Victor was well-known for his tenure at KLH, but he joined AR in 1975 as head of engineering and championed the intro of the ADD series (initially the 10Pi, 11, and MST/1.) I remember listening to him when he was a guest on Shop Talk (a 70's-era Boston hi-fi radio talk show) in the spring of 1976, extoling the virtues of the MST ("The MST can pump out bass like no 8-incher has any business doing!").

Victor was primarily responsible for the engineering efforts that went into the 1976-7 live-vs-recorded demonstrations with drummer Neil Grover and the 10Pi. That was quite a remarkable demonstration, as it demanded so much more in terms of power handling and HF energy response than AR's previous L v.R presentations. With very minor changes, the 10Pi's used for this demonstration were stock items, and none of the changes involved any of the drivers.

Victor told me that AR's primary objective in doing the Grover/10Pi demo was to prove that a relatively "conventional" 12-inch 3-way speaker could indeed recreate the effect of live music if it were properly designed, had verifiable, accurate response, and used rugged drivers of extremely high reliability. The 10Pi (and 11) had all the attributes needed.

Victor also told me that the 11 would have done just as well as the 10Pi (they used the 10Pi in the '2 pi' position anyway, the same as the 11 was), but they wanted the top-of-the-line model to get the "glory" of the success.

(BTW, the drummer was Neil Grover, NOT "Buddy Rich" as someone said on the Forum recently.)

Steve F.

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According to what I had learn, the AR-10Pi speakers used in the Live vs. Recorded with Neil Grover¡¦s drum Demo was a dynamic and loudness show off of what the AR-10Pi were capable of playing loud music passage. However, the demo pair of AR-10Pi was by no means of stock AR speakers off the production line. Both cabinets had been added with thick and wide cross brace in the center to reinforce the cabinets for rock solid feel to keep the Bass sound tight and solid. Also the auto transformer had been upgraded to bigger units so they would not be shut down easily during the show!

For the production AR-10Pi and AR-11 speakers, they are equality rough and capable of generating extremely loud music passage if your Amps are powerful enough with a lot of well reserved juice. I recall in Polytechnic Institute of New York Student Center in the basement¡¦s ceiling there mounted 4 AR-11 upside down facing the dance floor. During the Party events the DJ nut sitting on the first floor used to crane up the volume so loud with a pair of stereo 300w/ch DJ amps to pump out hot Rock and heavy Metal music that I can get a very good back massage by leaning my back on any side of the concrete walls. I had to take a break every 15 minutes to preserve my hearing and try not to have a mental breakdown during the Party¡K

Minh Luong

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Hi Minh!

Besides the pot elimination, it appears that the crossover is somewhat different than the original 3a. At the very least they appear to have an extra cap and inductor. I sent the guy an email asking if he could read the cap values, but received no response.

Roy C.

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>

>Minh, what was Victor Campos' connection to the 10 Pi and 11?

>Was he a designer or engineer for the systems?

>I know that he was with Adcom in the '80s, but I'm unfamiliar

>with his contributions to AR.

ar_pro,

Victor Campos, now close to 70, actually started at AR before going to work for KLH, to the best of my knowledge. He worked at AR during two periods: (1) from 1960-1963 and (2) from 1974-1979. For awhile in the first period he worked in the AR Music Room under Gerald Landau, Marketing Director, and subsequently in the customer-services area. Campos also was quite involved with an FM broadcast series in Boston public radio (WGHB Boston I believe), and many original master recordings were aired during some of these broadcasts. I am not sure when this occurred, but I have some of the tapes and could probably check them.

Although I don't think he was an engineer, he contributed a great deal to the design of several of AR products, especially during the second period. By this time he had a more active marketing role in product development than in the first period. He had a lot to do with the AR-10Pi/AR-11/AR-MST development, and he also had a lot to do with the product development of the AR-9. Incidentally, one version of the AR-9 was going to be "powered," but the design of that speaker never made it into production. Campos was heavily involved in that design.

--Tom Tyson

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I received a reply to my inquiry..The values of 3 of the 4 caps are 150uF, 20uF and 10uF. The 4th couldn't be read. I'd be willing to bet that one is a 50uF cap (aka original AR-3a midrange circuit). The 10uF cap and extra inductor indicates that part of the crossover may be similar to the AR-11's tweeter section.

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"I'd be willing to bet that one is a 50uF cap "???

Thanks for the update, Roy

or would it be " 40uF " as the AR-11 midrange section? Keep me posted.

Minh Luong

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I agree, the 40uf cap would be consistent with the others like the AR-11 and '3a Limited. I speculated on the 50uf based on the 150uf woofer cap and the assumption of a #9 woofer coil.

John O. and I have been comparing notes on this. The seller told us both that he couldn't read all of the caps but stated 4 values, the 4th being another 10uF. We are thinking that the seller mistakenly stated the very different looking (compared to the others) 10uf cap twice, and that the 4th is still a mystery...but who knows.

Given the probable use of an AR-11 type tweeter and the 20uf cap in the mix, I guess we can now safely assume that the "Improved" is not the same as the original AR-3a regardless of the pot elimination.

The cabinets went for $88 not including shipping. Lets hope the new owner checks in here at some point.

Roy

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Hello,Guys

Soon as I receive shipment of my purchase I'll confirm all

Questions on xover data.

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I found these at a recent garage sale, after reading earlier posts here; it appears these AR-2xa's are the European versions probably bought by a servicemen.  I've attached pics if anyone would like to comment.  Does anyone have any idea when they were made?  Are they worth getting refurbished?

AR2xa 1.jpg

AR2xa 2.jpg

AR2xa 3.jpg

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Welcome Greg!

You've revived a 13-year-old thread!

The AR-2ax's are wonderful speakers and from what I've read here the 2xa is the same speaker in the nicer (IMHO) European cabinet. Absolutely worth restoring.

The woofers will probably need re-foaming. The one in the photo "looks" OK but will probably come apart if touched. Roy should be able to advise you on capacitor values and pots. The stuffing is probably the euro multi-color stuff that's not as nasty as American fiberglass. 

You will love these speakers!

Kent

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The fact that the AR-2xa is so rare is reason enough to care about these speakers, but even more so because yours are in such great condition (BTW... is the veneer walnut or teak?). Aside from the thin-line Euro cabinet edge profile and the dark grille cloth, it'll be interesting to know what the differences are between this model and the far more common AR-2ax which necessitated the change in model designation. :blink:

For reference, the cap values for the 2ax are 4uF for tweeter and 6uF for midrange. Please let us know if these speakers have pot controls or switches. You've got a great find there. Keep us posted.

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