sendigitall

large advent recone with voice coil ?

28 posts in this topic

Hi

i have been going thru this forum as a passive member for quite a while, i am from India and luckily I have a pair of OLAs with masonite woofers. I found that the woofer cones were not that of the original large advents-I know how they look by the pictures i see in the internet-the purple ribbed ones. The surrounds are also not the right ones.Inspite of all this the OLAs still sound great.

As iam a analogue audio guy , my primary source of audio is LPs then cassette tapes and lastly CDs.My amplification is thru mono block tube amps(mullard 5-20 circuit) and my pre too is mullard tube pre.I have gone thru quiet a lot of speakers but i love the sound of the advents.I love them so much that iam all set to import another pair of them from the US.As i cannot buy directly from eBay to India iam using www.borderlinx.com to ship them for me.Its roughly gonna cost around 500USD for shipping only plus the cost of the speakers and their shipping inside the US.

Anyway i want to get my existing pair to the right state, there are 2 options as i know, one is buying a recone kit from ( http://www.simplyspe...k-advent10.html ) cause i did not find any other vendor online selling "recone kits for advents"., option 2 would be buying a used pair of masonite woofers from eBay. The first option is better for me cause shipping is easy and i have a good speaker repair guy locally.

Now, is the recone kit form simplyspeakers ok? or buying a original used pair form ebay is right. Kindly bare in mind that I have developed much respect to this man Henry E Kloss for his design and attitude towards engineering for audio, so i would go to any extents to get the original Henry’s intended sound of these speakers. And I myself believe more on audio designs of the 60s and 70s rather than the new age ones. Sorry its just my own opinion.If i go for buying a total woofer from ebay i want to stick to the masonite ringed ones. Kindly guide me , iam very grateful that i have this forum and experienced guys like you , hope Pete's expertise and Doug's friendliness will help people like me all around the world.

The other pair i have planned to import is to have the much acclaimed "Double Advent system”. Hope to have the "New large advent" as the second pair , dunno ,iam just greedy to have the best of both OLA and NLA , i believe this has to be posted on another topic. Kindly bare with me for the rather long post, as this is my first post here please let me know if iam doing anything wrong.Thanks

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the kit SS has is the only one anybody can get. if what you have now is a recone job, then most likeky a new recone won't be any different.

if you are seeking advent perfection, get a good used oem pair.

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Welcome to the Advent forum. It is actually amazing, sometimes, to think that a person way over in India can have a pair of these speakers from the US!

Anyway, I pretty much agree with Carl. Any recone kit available is not likely to be identical to the original components installed in the driver originally. It could be adequate if the supplied components are well made and close enough to the originals to perform similarly, however.

What I would do is inspect the cones that are in your drivers currently. Are the cones nice and thick and stiff? Do they appear to be made from a slurry as the originals? This can be determined by looking a the back surface of the cones. The vacuum formed originals are rough on the back surface and have six ribs on the front. I guess it would not be absolutely necessary for the cones to be exactly like the originals but it would assure identical performance if they are.

The DC resistance of the woofer voice coils should be somewhere around 4.5 - 4.75 ohms.

If they sound good to you, as you say they do (nice growly, deep bass capability when called for), you may want to just use them as is. Otherwise, obtaining genuine used Advent woofers is the goal.

Good luck!

Doug

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I found that the woofer cones were not that of the original large advents-I know how they look by the pictures i see in the internet-the purple ribbed ones. The surrounds are also not the right ones.Inspite of all this the OLAs still sound great.

Welcome to the CSP!

I would not describe the OLA woofer cones as purple. Maybe the photos give them a purplish cast, but I'd call them grey. Ribbed, yes. Attached is a photo of an OLA woofer before refoaming.

If the speakers "still sound great" why go to the trouble and expense of reconing?

Just my 2 cents. YMMV ;)

Kent

post-101828-0-26413800-1353351652_thumb.

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Welcome to the Advent forum. It is actually amazing, sometimes, to think that a person way over in India can have a pair of these speakers from the US!

Anyway, I pretty much agree with Carl. Any recone kit available is not likely to be identical to the original components installed in the driver originally. It could be adequate if the supplied components are well made and close enough to the originals to perform similarly, however.

What I would do is inspect the cones that are in your drivers currently. Are the cones nice and thick and stiff? Do they appear to be made from a slurry as the originals? This can be determined by looking a the back surface of the cones. The vacuum formed originals are rough on the back surface and have six ribs on the front. I guess it would not be absolutely necessary for the cones to be exactly like the originals but it would assure identical performance if they are.

The DC resistance of the woofer voice coils should be somewhere around 4.5 - 4.75 ohms.

If they sound good to you, as you say they do (nice growly, deep bass capability when called for), you may want to just use them as is. Otherwise, obtaining genuine used Advent woofers is the goal.

Good luck!

Doug

HI Doug

Thanks a lot for the welcome.Getting vintage speakers in india is quiet difficult , that too large advents are very less known.Brands like Altec, Goodmans and Tannoy are known here because of their presence in cinemas.Anyway with lot of difficulty i have scourged a pair -and iam happy.

Yes, they go down to a noticeable growing bass,i picture it as a "wall" of bass.Just want to be sure iam enjoying them at their full glory.The replacement kit avialble at simplyspeakers , have the following specs

Cone:10" ribbed cone

Voice Coil:1-1/2", 4 layer, copper wire, Kapton former, 6 ohms, Re: 5.8 ohms

Spider:5-1/4" x 3/8" cup

Dust Cap:3" screen

I iam posting some snaps , i can see that the dust cap is a cloth screen.Wondering if the cone kit will produce good effects in the higher range too.I did not remove the driver cause , already the particle board is giving away where the large high torque screws sit ,So iam saving them for may be the cone replace.So its just the front of the drivers .Thanks

post-123511-0-52575900-1353512972_thumb.

post-123511-0-84897800-1353512983_thumb.

post-123511-0-07387800-1353513002_thumb.

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Welcome to the CSP!

I would not describe the OLA woofer cones as purple. Maybe the photos give them a purplish cast, but I'd call them grey. Ribbed, yes. Attached is a photo of an OLA woofer before refoaming.

If the speakers "still sound great" why go to the trouble and expense of reconing?

Just my 2 cents. YMMV ;)

Kent

HI Kent

Thanks for the image, kindly have a look at my drivers too.Sounds great to me , but i after going thru the forum , i just want to make sure that i get the best out of these wonderful speakers.

thanks

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HI Kent

Thanks for the image, kindly have a look at my drivers too.Sounds great to me , but i after going thru the forum , i just want to make sure that i get the best out of these wonderful speakers.

thanks

So, if what you have is not original (and it looks it), then you've got nothing to loose with the SS kit. The ribs are important to help prevent upper midrange resonances which are common in large cones trying to handle those frequencies in the 800 to 3 kHz range.

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Hi Carl

Thanks for the note, thats what i thought, mine are not the originals , the SS kit is at least a replica of the original ,so i wish it helps better that what i have.By the way i did'nt know the importance of the 6 ribs until u pointed out.I believe the specs of the SS kit are right?mainly the voice coil pecs and spider?

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I checked the kit out. It looks pretty good. Probably the same one I'd get if I orderd one from my supplier, whom I think is selling to SS.

Have you ever done a recone job? Do you know how to set the VC height? IF not, do a search on youtube. I'm sure there are instructional videos there.

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The original former was thermally conductive, a copper or brass alloy I believe.

It was metal, Kapton is not. I prefer the original.

Perhaps someone in the US could pull the cone, VC, and spider from an

original to send you. Carl do you have a favorite replacement spider that could

be used in a case like this?

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I don't have a favorite per se'. I'd just use what my supplier has for the Advent recone kit.

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I checked the kit out. It looks pretty good. Probably the same one I'd get if I orderd one from my supplier, whom I think is selling to SS.

Have you ever done a recone job? Do you know how to set the VC height? IF not, do a search on youtube. I'm sure there are instructional videos there.

hi Carl

I have a very good speaker repair guy , but iam not sure of the VC height , is there any specific measurement for the Original Large Advent?, if the VC height is a common factor then my speaker guy can do it.Anyway i shall try to search for videos.Good the SS kit is quiet worth while.

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The original former was thermally conductive, a copper or brass alloy I believe.

It was metal, Kapton is not. I prefer the original.

Perhaps someone in the US could pull the cone, VC, and spider from an

original to send you. Carl do you have a favorite replacement spider that could

be used in a case like this?

Hi Pete

Thanks for the response.If some one could pull out the Cone,VC and spider from an original as u said ,that would be my christmas!!!...and i shall be very greatful too.I belive iam asking for too much....anyway if there is some one with the OLA woofers and tweeters , i shall try my luck by shipping it from US to india.Thanks

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The kit VC former may not be the same hight as original. So, pulling one original may not help with the recone job.

If you speaker repair guy knows about setting the VC height, the that's great. If he doesn't, do a google search on reconing. If that doesn't succeed I'll help. The objective is to set the VC so the windings are centered on the thickness of the pole plate closest to the frame. That's all I'll write now. A detail explanation will be considerably longer.

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hi Carl

thanks for the help. When i start the recone process ,i will sure come asking for ur help.Bytheway i was out of station for a couple of days for a shoot , in the free times i did a scouting in the near by areas for speakers and guess what i managed to locate a pair of OLA s!!!!!, i have just seep pic of them , woofer looks original , but the tweeters look as pretty different , the Masonite piece has been etched out , showing the bare tweeters and they look like they are black?/..its just a very poor foto.Anyway i have bought them for around 300usd , they are being shipped and may be at my place by next week.So happy to get another pair within India,better news is that i may get a pair of AR-1, with the altec 755a drivers , iam still in the process.Iam happy.

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If you get the AR 1's you'll be golden!

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Welcome to the CSP!

I would not describe the OLA woofer cones as purple. Maybe the photos give them a purplish cast, but I'd call them grey...

Kent

Shine one of the LED blue light flashlights on them and they will have the same purplish cast to them as in photographs.

:D

Doug

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while waiting for another pair of OLA, i have imported a pair of NLA from Singapore, the tweeters are gone and the woofers need refoaming .I have bought a pair of tweeter for the NLA on ebay , they should be here in a week or 10 days , mean while i iam in the process of scrapping out the ols surrounds and the adhesive ....very hard ..will post pics as soon i get a god DSLR cam..sure i will need your advices.

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Welcome to the forum!! Glad to hear you were able to get what you needed. I've bought a few Advent woofers on e-bay anf refoamed them myself although I was doubtful of my ability to do the job I asked a lot of newbie questions here and got the help I needed. I too want to try stacked Advents but I have to clear some other stuff out before I have room. I'll have to drive them with an Adcom 300 watt amplifier as I don't have tube gear capable. I have NLAs, newer LAs and an Anniversary pair. I also ahve one pair like the ones you had originally but the woofers had be refoamed before I got them.

Let us know how everything turns out. Searching for parts can be hard but just imagine how hard it would be without the net and forums like this one!

Don.

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hi Don thanks for the welcome, actually i received my two NLA full metal frame tweeters which i bought out of ebay ,just arrived .The guy made a good packing , it actually stood all the punishments of the Indian customs dept and postal dept .Physically looks good , i shal connect and check them to night ..belive they should work.

next i have to buy the surrounds for the metal frame NLA woofers, i need some kind advice here , by going thru the forums, i understandthat there are actually two guys who are mostly recomended for refoam kits, 1.Msound and 2.looneytoon2001.Msound uses shims for centering and looneytoon2001 uses a low frequency sound for it i belive.As iam planning to do the replacement , which of these two would be better??...any thoughts?..

As rightly said by Don , what could i do with out the internet and this forum...i would be sitting in a corner in india -clueless...thank you GOD...

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i understandthat there are actually two guys who are mostly recomended for refoam kits, 1.Msound and 2.looneytoon2001.Msound uses shims for centering and looneytoon2001 uses a low frequency sound for it i belive.As iam planning to do the replacement , which of these two would be better??...any thoughts?..

You will get strong opinions on both sides of that issue. Here is M Sound's how-to: http://www.citlink.net/~msound/refoam/

If you look at page 2, there is a section titled Speaker Clearances & Why We MUST Use Shims

I happen to find the argument compelling and I always use shims. Shims have another advantage: They allow you to position the speaker cone at different heights while you work on it. Very handy.

I never refoamed the metal basket version of the OLA but when I did my masonite version I found them awkward to work on because the foam is glued to th e back side of the masonite. I was glad to have the shims!

You will find others who feel just as strongly about using the 30Hz test tone. You will have to decide which method seems better.

Kent

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Thanks Kent

still waiting for views about the two vendors and their methods. meanwhile i tested the tweeters ..thank god they are working!....i came across voice coil height in this same topic , does it apply for refoam or only if i go for a recone?.The cone of my NLAs are quiet thick and stiff, like a safari hunter's hat!...is that normal?...and if i tilt and roll the metal basket i can hear the voice coil hitting the sides of the magnet ...are the cone so freely suspended?,,anyway i hope to refoam them soon....

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Sendigitall,

I have bought all of my refoam diaphragms for my speaker projects from Looney Tunes ( I have refoamed 8 drivers in the past year including 2 pairs of large Advents with the metal baskets and 1 pair of Smaller Advents ) and have never had a problem with any of them. The 30 hz tone works well and of course, the advantage is that you do not have to cut away the dust cap. If you are comfortable with using shims, it probably is more accurate but as I said, all 3 of my Advent refoam projects came out just fine. You just need to be diligent and work patiently and carefully read the instructions ahead of time to get a feel what will need to be done.

As Kent said above, there are strong opinions for both the 30 hz tone method and the shim method. The 30 hz tone method is relatively straight forward and has worked well for me as the shim method has also worked well for others.

Good luck with whichever method you decide upon!

Regarding the freely moving cones and their tendency to allow the voice coils to hit if you tilt the baskets, this is normal if the foam diaphragms are not intact. Without the intact foam diaphragms in place , the cones will move very easily as only the flexible spider is holding them in place. Once you get your new foams attached, they will be alright and align properly. And, yes, the Advent cones are relatively thick (being a traditional acoustic suspension driver).

Dean

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I do not shim, especially with the Advents, they are very easy to do without shims.

If you shim, and change the dust cap you will not have an Advent woofer anymore.

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Hi Dean

Thanks for the info , any comments on the Voice Coil height?....is there any spec i need to follow regarding that?

senthil

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