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Edzll

Blown New Advent driver

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I'm not knowledgable about electronics or speaker design so I hope someone here has the patience to answer my naive questions. I've "blown"? the bass driver on one of my New Advent 5012 speakers. By "blown" I mean that it rattles on low frequency, high volume sounds. This happened after I hooked my amp/TV/computer together and fired up a youtube that about blew the house apart when it started up. Stupid me, for not zero-ing the amp volume first. The speaker still sounds OK if not asked to handle low notes at much volume - like the terriying roar of the blown-out BP well on the film about the Deepwater Horizon :(.

My questions:
- Will I damage it further if I keep using it at rattle-fee levels?
- In layman's terms :) what's the most likely physical nature of the damage?
- Am I wrong in thinking it's not practically repairable?
- Can I replace it with a non-identical woofer that's relatively inexpensive; and not hear much difference? (** See below)
- How can I identify & where obtain a suitable replacement unit? (** see below)

** This is "below" :)
I'm entering my 80s so my hearing is no doubt less acute than when the speakers were new, and I'm not as purist-picky either - but I still like to hear good sound. I don't know how to evaluate potential replacement woofers. Plus, I'm in Canada so even if I can get a moderate-price unit from a US supplier (who will even deign to ship here!) the shipping will be fierce. (Any Canadians on here with local supplier knowledge? But even shipping from "back east" - I'm on Vancouver Island - could be hefty.)

It's possible that just buying modern small speakers (how do they GET that sound) would be the simplest or most practical solution but I'm strongly opposed to dumping a speaker set if 3/4 of it is working just fine.

Apologies if my questions are less than interesting to the more technically advanced majority here; and thanks in advance, for any help/advice.

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2 hours ago, Edzll said:

I'm not knowledgable about electronics or speaker design so I hope someone here has the patience to answer my naive questions. I've "blown"? the bass driver on one of my New Advent 5012 speakers. By "blown" I mean that it rattles on low frequency, high volume sounds. This happened after I hooked my amp/TV/computer together and fired up a youtube that about blew the house apart when it started up. Stupid me, for not zero-ing the amp volume first. The speaker still sounds OK if not asked to handle low notes at much volume - like the terriying roar of the blown-out BP well on the film about the Deepwater Horizon :(.

My questions:
- Will I damage it further if I keep using it at rattle-fee levels?  Yes you will most likely.
- In layman's terms :) what's the most likely physical nature of the damage? Damaged Voice coil or deteriorated surround
- Am I wrong in thinking it's not practically repairable? Yes, you are wrong.
- Can I replace it with a non-identical woofer that's relatively inexpensive; and not hear much difference? (** See below) Depends on how critically you listen. Its easier to replace with identical which are easy to find.
- How can I identify & where obtain a suitable replacement unit? (** see below)

** This is "below" :)
I'm entering my 80s so my hearing is no doubt less acute than when the speakers were new, and I'm not as purist-picky either - but I still like to hear good sound. I don't know how to evaluate potential replacement woofers. Plus, I'm in Canada so even if I can get a moderate-price unit from a US supplier (who will even deign to ship here!) the shipping will be fierce. (Any Canadians on here with local supplier knowledge? But even shipping from "back east" - I'm on Vancouver Island - could be hefty.)

It's possible that just buying modern small speakers (how do they GET that sound) would be the simplest or most practical solution but I'm strongly opposed to dumping a speaker set if 3/4 of it is working just fine.

Apologies if my questions are less than interesting to the more technically advanced majority here; and thanks in advance, for any help/advice.

Remove the grill to see if the foam surround is cracked or broken. This might be your only problem which can be easily repaired by you or someone competent.  Worst case is voice coil is gone and you need replacement woofer. 

An Advent expert will be along eventually when the holiday weekend is over. 

Posting a picture of the woofers would be of help. 

Adams 

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1 hour ago, Aadams said:

Remove the grill to see if the foam surround is cracked or broken. This might be your only problem which can be easily repaired by you or someone competent.  Worst case is voice coil is gone and you need replacement woofer. 

An Advent expert will be along eventually when the holiday weekend is over. 

Posting a picture of the woofers would be of help. 

Adams 

Thanks,  Adams, for your response (It's not a holiday here :))

I was alerted to the need for foam replacement, and did that, a couple years ago. I feel sure you're right in suggesting the voice coil is damaged. Not sure whether you're saying that's (easily/economically) repairable? Pushing on the cone produces a rasping or scraping sound.

So far I'm not finding it easy - or maybe even possible - to locate an identical - or just compatible - replacement for the driver.  The speakers are New Advent 5012 (late 70's - early 80s)

I've been able to confirm (by ear) that it's only one of my woofers that's damaged; i.e.only one can be made to rattle.

 

Edited by Edzll
Clarification

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If you were here, that woofer would be available rebuilt and used.  You could get yours repaired but you would probably spend more than for a used replacement(s) which do frequently appear on the most popular auction site (The site that dare not speak its name). There is one currently for sale @$29.00 in Sacremento.  Here is a picture

image.png.5f0134dbd9c11c57c93d2abb090c98cd.png

 Edzll just noticed you were on Vancouver Island. 

Adams

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Adams, can you give me references to the site(s) where these identical replacements show up? It would be great if I can get one.

Thanks, Edzll

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Edzll

Give us a picture of the woofer and Measure the woofer diameter across the frame outside to outside. There are plenty of advent spare parts in the world.   And all of the Advent 5012s I see appear to use what is called the 10" woofer.  I think the  5002 used the same woofer. The following is a quote from ad copy:

" The nominally 10-inch-diameter paper cone (which has an actual radiating diameter of just under 8 inches) is driven by a 1-1/2-inch voice coil whose nominal impedance is 8 ohms. The woofer operates in a sealed cabinet made of walnut-grain vinyl-clad particle board; the smoothly rounded front edges give it the appearance of a wood-veneered cabinet. The speaker can be mounted either horizontally or vertically, against a wall or on the floor. Advent encourages experimentation to find the sonically best location."

If you can hang on till Tuesday the real Advent experts will probably be back. 

Adams

 

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Oh, so my confusion is over nomenclature? That could explain a lot. I'm off to take the grill cloth back off and get you a photo.

 

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Here is the one for sale.  There are at least hundreds of these for sale new and used.  This one is for sale in Sacremento.  

image.thumb.png.a88114016c07f3a6bbb131701a68b56e.png

 

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That surely is the one. Thank you so much for clearing up my confusion. I'd found some before but thought they were the wrong size, meant for some other Advent "box."

We're going out for the evening - a previously booked free dinner for local old farts;  can't miss it! You've been very helpful, and not easily discouraged.

BTW, I don't seriously imagine I should think about DIY voice coil repair :)

Alexander (Edzll's real name.)

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1 minute ago, Edzll said:

That surely is the one. Thank you so much for clearing up my confusion. I'd found some before but thought they were the wrong size, meant for some other Advent "box."

We're going out for the evening - a previously booked free dinner for local old farts;  can't miss it! You've been very helpful, and not easily discouraged.

BTW, I don't seriously imagine I should think about DIY voice coil repair :)

Alexander (Edzll's real name.)

When I had Advents it seemed like these drivers were everywhere. When I look now all that are for sale are in the cabinet.  My "hundreds for sale" statement was incorrect,at least for today.

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2 hours ago, Aadams said:

When I had Advents it seemed like these drivers were everywhere. When I look now all that are for sale are in the cabinet.  My "hundreds for sale" statement was incorrect,at least for today.

Ah, thanks (I think.) So my saga continues .........

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So now I have another question (of course!) - When people talk about  "large Advent" speakers are they actually referring to the same ones I have, in a cabinet about 11-3/4" x 14-1/2"  x  26-1/2" high? They were called "New Advent" when I bought them, and are so labelled at lower left front. I've been dismissing ads for Large Advent drivers because I imagined "large Advents" must be something different from mine - which Advent themselves called "New Advent." Oh but wait; I just saw an illustration on line, looks like mine, but the plaque just says "Advent," not "New Advent."

It seems any technical problems might be easier to sort out than those of inconsistent naming & maybe unclear communication. But isn't it ever so?? It can get quite frustrating. I'll likely feel better about it in the morning; especially in view of the fact that folks on here are so very, very helpful.

Time for a nightcap (Rusty Nail) then bed.

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7 hours ago, Edzll said:

When people talk about  "large Advent" speakers

They are talking about a  long line of speakers that are very similar.  Your woofer is the same one used in several models of Advent speakers of which maybe a million pairs were sold.  If you see a woofer that looks like yours it will probably work in your 5012.   You cannot use the woofer from the original large Advent (OLA)  the real name of which was The Advent Loudspeaker.   Later Advent products like the Legacy series did not employ your woofer but in general if  it looks yours and is dimensionally the same it will work.  Again I am not the Advent expert here.

Adams

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3 hours ago, Aadams said:

... If you see a woofer that looks like yours it will probably work in your 5012.   You cannot use the woofer from the original large Advent (OLA)  the real name of which was The Advent Loudspeaker.   Later Advent products like the Legacy series did not employ your woofer but in general if  it looks yours and is dimensionally the same it will work ....

Thank you, that clarifies a couple of things for me:

If "Large Advent" is mentioned - or OLA - it has a different bass speaker than  my 5012s;  and 'Legacy' is not an age-related adjective but the name of another series whose drivers are also different. What about "heritage Advent" I wonder - I'm pretty sure I've seen that (but maybe I'm imagining it.)

 

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2 hours ago, Edzll said:

If "Large Advent" is mentioned - or OLA - it has a different bass speaker than  my 5012s;   Not necessarily.

If "large advent" is mentioned it could be either.  The real OLA woofer is very obviously not like yours.

ADAMS

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2 hours ago, Aadams said:

If "large advent" is mentioned it could be either.  The real OLA woofer is very obviously not like yours.

ADAMS

Yes, I now appreciate more, why you asked for a photo.

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Welcome Edzil

Adams is giving you good guidance. FYI here is a thread explaining all the different Advent models, with photos: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/identifying-your-advent-loudspeakers.126376/

Here's a new replacement (a bit pricey but brand new and good quality): https://www.simplyspeakers.com/advent-replacement-woofer-p001-31858.html

This one claims to be a drop in replacement but I'm skeptical http://www.mavin.com/store.php/feature-items/12-woofer-8-ohms-drop-in-replacement-for-the-large-advent

Best bet may be to watch ebay. Re-foamed NLA woofers have sold from about $25 to about $45 USD each. A little patience should pay off.

-Kent

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, Edzll said:

Yes, I now appreciate more, why you asked for a photo.

Edzll

Just make sure you see an image before you buy.  If your vision is legal for driving you can see the difference at 50ft. It would be difficult to confuse them.

Adams

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"If your vision is legal for driving you can see the difference at 50ft."

Haha, yes. But I often see the speakers described as not only 'Small Advents' but also 'bookshelf speakers' ??? They wouldn't be supported by any bookshelves I've ever owned; although I did at one time have the courage to wall-hang then with very strong picture wire.

Despite claims that "walnut vinyl" is the most handsome cabinet finish of all, let me tell you that mine are finished with  blond oak veneer - not vinyl - and are THE most handsome that anyone could possibly imagine! I may get around to providing photo evidence of their beauty. They were bought in Prince George, B.C. in the very early 80s. Hmm. Maybe a pair of oak veneered New Advents is so rare as to be worth thousands ?? or not.

Right now I'm not finding that recognisable-at-50-feet woofer except maybe the one in Sacramento. It's recognisable from the front but in the back view has a different round & domed magnet (mine is square & flat, with no identifying marks I think.) And the Sacramento one is described as 10" woofer in 12" frame,  which tends to confuse me further. (Kent - same goes for one of those you pointed to; and the one that you were dubious  about is definitely not a drop-in replacement .) Also there is some inconsistency about advertised impedance - 8 ohms or 6?

As an irrelevant aside, the mounting holes in my drivers are plain round holes that fit the screws quite snugly. The pictures I see of (later?) drivers have slotted holes. Was this a sign of deteriorating quality control, requiring some assembly tolerance? I'm joking really, but mine really are not slotted.

This thread is getting pretty long (I'm not complaining) so I think I'll start a fresh topic simply asking if anyone has, or can point me to, the correct driver for sale.

 

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On 2/18/2018 at 9:02 AM, Edzll said:

The speaker still sounds OK if not asked to handle low notes at much volume - like the terriying roar of the blown-out BP well on the film about the Deepwater Horizon :(.

 

Disregard, I understand now

Where do you live?  Someone mentioned Sacramento, are you up there? If so there's a couple honest guys that do good work in Sac

You most likely broke the glue joint at the former to cone connection at worst

Very possibly an easy fix at an honest shop

Craig

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Edzll this is an OLA woofer.  It cannot be confused with yours. Purists will note this one has an incorrect dust cover but you should focus on the brown masonite ring.  ALL OLA woofers have a masonite ring.

  image.thumb.png.fb84b8ebe352791a3f964e9c6816ff5f.png

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Alexander,

If you decide to go the repair route as opposed to buying a new or used replacement, the universally-acknowledged woofer repair guru is Bill LeGall. He's also a very good guy. He will be happy to give you a repair estimate:

http://www.millersound.net/index.html

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Thanks A(a)dams. By now, mostly thanks to yourself, I've got a pretty good feel for which advertised drivers are the one I need, which ones are definitely not, and which ones I need more info about. - including front & rear photos, preferably  with illustrated front measurements.

I'm getting advice from several folks now - thanks all - so I'll just mostly address myself to the forum; maybe repeating a few things I said before that have been skipped over :). The driver in question makes horrid rattling noises on loud low-frequencies after being accidentally subjected to a burst of ear-shattering noise. If I push on the cone it makes a scraping noise.

I'm on Vancouver Island so US postage & dollar premium - ours is $0.80 - could be an issue in pricing repairs/replacement. Closest repair guy I can find online is in Victoria; about 3 hr drive south so not too bad but I don't know beans about him. I won't consider 'D.I.M.yself' speaker repairs.

I've still been using both speakers at modest volume with no audible distortion but I'd guess Adams may be right in saying I could be doing further damage . I guess I'll disconnect the bad one. Would there be any danger in connecting both of the amp's R&L speaker outputs together, going to one speaker ''set' (i.e. tweet & woof)? Kind of effectively mono delivered to one side.'

Edited by Edzll
Dollar correction

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