AR Limited Model 3

[djcheung]

Dear all,

Just purchased a pair of AR Limited Model 3 and have a few questions hope the experts here and help.

1. Does anybody have the user handbook of these beasts?

2. XO schematics would be great

3. Bass response seems a bit thin compared to the AR9 using the same amplifier

4. How these speakers should be placed - away or close to the back wall

I can't find any info apart from some pictures and sale brochures.

Your help is very much appreciated.

Best regards,

David.

[DavidR]

There's some info on the web you can dig up.

These are so rare they are more like a myth.

Beautiful speakers, thou.

A while back I did read a review on them and the bass was noted as not being like other AR speakers (namely the 9s) but still was impressive. If I can find it again I will post a link.

[djcheung]

Just dusted off my old Pioneer amp SA-508 from the loft.

Tested it with the M4 and thought, have I connected up the wrong speakers ?

Checked the connection again and everything was good.

But they sound so good.

Just want to confirm it, I proceeded to connect up with the AR925 and wow.

I haven't heard them driven so hard and strong before with the Yamaha Z11.

So I thought, what about the Limited Model 3 ?

I was amazed how the 3 sounded with this tiny 40wpc amp.

They actually sound much more solid, stronger than with the Z11.

Would that be anything to do with the higher current pumped out from the 'vintage' amplifiers?

Best regards,

David.

[ligs]

Wow, AR Limited Model 3 used some of the most expensive drivers at that time. Dynaudio 3" soft dome midranges((2 of D-76 variety) and Dynaudio 28mm(Isotar/Isotec series) soft dome tweeter and AR's own design 12" woofer with very low Q. I had the fortune of having 2 of the woofer low pass crossover boards. I was highly impressed by the 12 awg coils, multiple film capacitors and Sprague power resistors. A while back a pair of semi-kit form of AR Limited 3 were sold on eBay. AR limited 3 woofers were available at one time. http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/

I am interested in reading more about the sound of these unique speakers.

[DavidDru]

Just dusted off my old Pioneer amp SA-508 from the loft.

Tested it with the M4 and thought, have I connected up the wrong speakers ?

Checked the connection again and everything was good.

But they sound so good.

Just want to confirm it, I proceeded to connect up with the AR925 and wow.

I haven't heard them driven so hard and strong before with the Yamaha Z11.

So I thought, what about the Limited Model 3 ?

I was amazed how the 3 sounded with this tiny 40wpc amp.

They actually sound much more solid, stronger than with the Z11.

Would that be anything to do with the higher current pumped out from the 'vintage' amplifiers?

Best regards,

David.

David, I think the 508 is actually 25w/ch which makes it even more amazing.

[djcheung]

I may not be the best people to describe how they sound as I am not using the most appropriate amplifier to drive them.

But with the limited listening sessions that I had over the weekend, here is my impressions.

When I was using the Yamaha to drive them, they sounded lifeless and very dull.

But with the Pioneer amp, it seems to have come alive.

Midrange is very lovely and warm. Highs to my ears are just right, not too harsh.

Low frequencies response are actually quite good considering I am driving them with only 40wpc.

There is another member here who also has the Limited Model 3 and the original Krell power amplifiers (used to test them) to drive them.

I think he will be able to give you a more informed impression of these beast.

But with the limited power on tap from the Pioneer, they are already very, very impressive.

I just can't image when you feed them more juice with a powerful power amp.

One thing that I have noticed that you have to place them well away from the side walls as the high frequencies tend to bounce off quite badly due to the wide dispersion mid/tweeter units.

I will listen more and report.

Best regards,

David.

[djcheung]

Hi DavidDru,

You are absolutely right !

The 508 is actually 25wpc.

So, how is it driving the Limited Model 3 with such authority !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best regards,

David.

[DavidDru]

Good ole truthful power specs.? Damping factor? Current? I use an old pioneer SX1000Ta with some KLH model Five and or 2ax's and it drives them very well. The only reason I picked up the 1000Ta for $40 was because the unique fact it has a tube tuner section in it, but I have been impressed with how good just about everything I have connected to it has sounded. My big pioneer SA9100 integrated has been in the repair shop for about 6 months and is what is supposed to be hooked up to those speakers. The lesser 1000 is making the time fly by.

[RoyC]

Power output ratings have nothing to do with the typical differences and preferences heard between amplifiers in the signal chain feeding the speakers. It is always entertaining to read replies to the often asked question regarding "how much power" a specific speaker system "needs" to sound "good". Unless the question pertains to achieving the loudest possible volume level, the question is meaningless.

Roy

[Steve F]

".....Dynaudio 3" soft dome midranges((2 of D-76 variety) and Dynaudio 28mm(Isotar/Isotec series) soft dome tweeter and AR's own design 12" woofer...."

This has an amusing back story. An engineer I later worked with at BA was at AR at the time of the 3 Limited. There was such a fanatic internal rush to do a real "audiophile" speaker that the original tweeter--a perfectly excellent Vifa--was ditched in favor of the Dynaudio (because Dynaudio had that "audiophile" cachet). The Dynaudio had much rougher FR, much more difficult to make behave and it necessitated a far more complex HF section in the crossover than would have been the case with the Vifa. My associate was disgusted because it made the speaker more complicated and more expensive, just to get back to the same performance level they would have been at all along had they used the Vifa.

Regarding the woofer, yes, it was AR-designed and built by Tonegen. The tentative plan was that if the Limited Series and the 1992 Classic Series (18 thru 30, see lit in the Library) had sold well, then AR would've resumed some driver manufacturing in Canton MA.

But it all flopped, sales wise, and AR fled MA for CA under the cover of the NHT banner. To my mind, that closed out the original AR MA history 1954-1992.

We had a factory tour in 1992 with the BAS and heard the Limited 3. My impression was that it was exactly what AR wanted it to be: an "audiophile" speaker--very clean, good 'imaging' (with its intentionally-restricted M-T-M vertical dispersion limiting its "splatter"), clean highs, and articulate bass.

"Articulate bass" is a very nice way of saying, "It doesn't have anywhere near the bass impact or bass power that you'd expect from a speaker this big and expensive, with a 12" AR woofer, wearing the AR nameplate."

Steve F.

[DavidR]

Steve, I read (some where on the internet) about the tweeter selection as you describe. It also stated the tweeter used did not sound very good or perhaps not like the other tweeter would have performed. I like how you paraphrased the bass sound.