Is it practical to refinish "unfinished pine" AR3a speakers BACK to unfinished pine?

[jeff spicoli]

Yesterday I pulled the trigger and bought a set of AR3a's on eBay. Unfortunately it was an impulse buy and I made an offer and was surprised the seller accepted. Upon looking at the pictures provided in the listing it looks as if the finish was originally raw pine and may have had a lacquer or stain applied.

If I would have looked closer I would have noticed that and not bid, but what's done is done. I'm a purist and was wanting to know if anybody ever refinished a pair of AR speakers BACK to the original "unfinished" finish? Would it even be practical?

[frankmarsi]

2-20-14

I’m not a woodworking sort of guy but, whenever I’ve tried to stain or finish ‘pine’ it always looked terrible.

Back in 1966 or '67, I had built a few cabinets attempting to build a speaker system. I had used whatever wood my father had lying around.

There was plywood, and 3/4 inch shelve making pine. Gee, my attempts not only sounded bad they looked even worse.

Unless you have experience, the results will be awful and cheap looking.

A suggestion is to try your hand at applying a simple veneer application.

There are many kits available at hardware outlets, hobby stores, etc. or online and they’re generally not too expensive.

Practice on pieces of scrape wood and go from there. It may take time to get the knack of it, but you may be happier. You'll need to buy a trimmer and other related tools. The glue application is very important to do correctly. I think P.E. offers a kit also. The inter-net is a great source of information, use it.

I feel that AR used some excellent wood working companies to do their cabinets and every AR box I've seen has always looked great. Only other option is to hunt around for empty AR cabinets.

A few years ago, I was lucky enough to find on fleabay a couple of AR-3a empty cabinets with cross-overs and stuffing for $89. for the pair. The funny thing is I also bought the woofers from the same butcher who tore them apart.

Admittedly, that's a rare occurrence, but deals are out there if you hunt long enough.

Unfortuately, AR prices have soared sky high, especially these past few months, it's getting crazy out there.

I’ve seen many examples of half-hearted attempts made to finish pine and not once have they looked even close to good. The average pine grain structure is typically not suitable for a good looking finish, unless you're into that 'country-farm' house look?

You may want to seek out a professional just to ask for prices and see their examples for a little insight before you decide which way to go.

While you're there ask what they would charge for such work, no doubt it won't be as cheap as doing it yourself.

So, don’t waste your time, money or effort, just search on-line for methods that are appropriate for your project.

Good lucky to you!

fm

[ar_pro]

Do you have any good photos of the finished cabinets?

In their literature, AR actually advised against staining the unfinished pine, which frequently results in a blotchy, uneven finish.

It should be a relatively easy (if messy) effort to chemically strip the stain, and then sand the pine veneer & front moulding to a more natural look.

[jeff spicoli]

Are we allowed to post links to eBay? It would be the auction that I won, not a auction that I am promoting

[jeff spicoli]

That's exactly what I am after. I want to reverse what the previous owner did and have the speakers look like they did when they were bought new. I didn't know if it was a dumb idea or not?

for prosperity's sake I love the fact that these are so well regarded and the monetary value really doesn't do anything for me. They have more historical significance than anything else. I'm just a regular guy who loves music and loves listening to his music on nice equipment. I do not buy stuff just to flip.

[ar_pro]

Jeff -

Just right-click copy the eBay photos, and then include them with your post.

You'll have to rename each photo, because eBay assigns them the same name.

I've been hunting for a not-insanely-priced pair of unfinished AR-1 speakers to match up with a pair of Janszen Z-130 tweeters for awhile - I think it's a great look.

[Anthropologo]

Jeff -

Just right-click copy the eBay photos, and then include them with your post.

You'll have to rename each photo, because eBay assigns them the same name.

I've been hunting for a not-insanely-priced pair of unfinished AR-1 speakers to match up with a pair of Janszen Z-130 tweeters for awhile - I think it's a great look.

However, even without the mid-century moderntastic blonde or unfinished finish, they still sound really good

[ra.ra]

I have a little bit of experience in this area, but your situation sounds somewhat different from mine. The link below (see mostly posts #1, 8 and 29) describes my ongoing restoration efforts with a pair of pine 4x cabinets, even though the primary purpose of my query was to understand the somewhat rare crossover networks I discovered inside. Also, the attached pics here show:

a. speakers as purchased

b. finish removed

c. AR pine sample

d. AR birch sample

e. close-up of stripped pine

My cabinets were painted, not stained, and it was very arduous work to remove the painted finish. Mostly chemical stripping and handwork, with maybe just a light orbital sanding. The speakers are not yet completed, and if I do ultimately decide to apply any sort of finish at all, it will be with an extremely light touch, and intended only to maintain the very blonde appearance and maybe provide ease of maintenance. They are still sitting amidst my pile of "to-be-completed" projects, just naked as a jaybird, begging for some additional attention.

To receive the best advice, it would be most helpful to see some pics of your cabinets. I included the birch here just in case this might apply, but I already think you'd know if you had birch instead of pine - the grain pattern and structure is so vastly different between the two species. Of note, see the text included on the pine sample - - - "suitable for paint or other opaque finish". There is a good reason for this - - - most pine looks rather unattractive with any stained finish, where this type of application tends to highlight the uneven character of the veneer surface.

My $.02 here is offered, of course, without having seen your specific situation. Re-veneering is always an option, and if that road has any attraction to you, why not consider one of the more rare species that AR offered (cherry, mahogany) instead of the common walnut? Keep in mind, however, if you do pursue this path (new veneer of any species), the wide front mouldings on AR-3 series speakers are solid wood, not veneer, and will require replacement as well.

Lastly, I am not exactly sure how to begin to remove a stained finish from pine - stain is meant to soak into the wood to some degree, regardless of the grain structure. If you decide to commit to this type of experimentation, I would suggest beginning with chemicals, gloves and lots of steel (or even better, bronze) wool before you reach for the sander.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7798&page=2

[ar_pro]

However, even without the mid-century moderntastic blonde or unfinished finish, they still sound really good

Those are the ones!

Talk about classic.

[jeff spicoli]

here are some pictures from the listing

[jeff spicoli]

Here is another picture but this one is different lighting but its the same seller. I am assuming this is the pair i bought. The seller tried selling them about 4 times before i finally offered to buy them. I guess i should have been more patient and took my time researching.

[jeff spicoli]

one more of the back side

[HarryM]

This is just a guess but it looks like it may be a urethane mixed with stain or possibly a colored urethane. First thing to do is chemically strip it and see what you've got when you're finished.

Harry.

[Gaston]

I am still working on those AR3a's, about which I plan to make a thread when done finally (it took very long time and a lot of help by RoyC) but about the cabinets, being in the same situation as you, I can only tell you that it's almost impossible to revert them in unfinished pine and look good as they should.

The condition, when I bought them, as you can see was about the same as in your case (awful):

So I decided to revert them back to original unfinished pine:

You can't see it from the pictures but there were too many spots/stains that could not be sanded nicely... so therefore I tried to finish them again:

So, as you can see there's no other way in this case but to re-stain them better or to re-veneer them.

[Anthropologo]

1. Strip to get as much stain removed as possible

2. Sand to even up and open cabinet surface and get all but most stubborn/deepest spots/stains

3. Bleach to remove deeper spots/stains - should also even out tone over entire surface

If results at the end of #3 are not satisfactory, you at least have a prepared foundation for proper veneer job.

[ra.ra]

Hey Jeff:

More about the cabinet finishes later, but something about this listing is smelling strongly fishy. The speakers shown in post 10 are a pair of AR-3a's, while the pics shown in posts 11 and 12 are AR-3's. While this "minor detail" is not necessarily germane to the topic of cabinet finishes, this discussion might be more fruitful if you could post your own pics of the actual purchased speakers after they are in your possession. Thusfar, I am not convinced that even you are exactly certain what you have purchased.

Sheesh, between this post and Frank's saga with his AR-9's, there seem to be too many sharks (non-forthcoming sellers) in the water this week.

[jeff spicoli]

I think I figured it out. The first picture is of the ones that I bought. The last two pictures are from a different auction but the same seller. I thought that since they were from the same seller and he relisted them (I thought they were the ones I bought) I could show a different angle with different lighting for a better i.d.

Since those were relisted I assumed they were mine, but its possible that the seller had two pairs of AR speakers?

gosh this is confusing!!

[ra.ra]

....... postscript here.

Just happened to stumble on Jeff's parallel post on AK, and at least a small bit of information has dribbled out. See attached pics here - - - turns out there are (were) two separate auctions from same seller. One auction is for a pair of pine AR-3's (mis-identified as 3a's); and the other auction is for a pair of AR-3a's in oiled walnut (see tag on backside).

Each listing had very minimal information about any aspect of the speaker quality, so I can only suggest caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware!). So, if Jeff did in fact purchase the 3a's (the real ones, not the mis-identified pair), it appears that they do indeed have walnut veneer and not pine. The one frontal pic in the listing does show a very glossy finish, so either this photo was shot while a fresh coat of oil was still wet, or the cabinets have been glop-coated with some other product, which if desired, should be removable with chemicals and/or abrasives.

[ra.ra]

Oops, was not aware you were posting at same time as me. Conclusion: methinks you might have purchased a very decent set of 3a's in (originally) oiled walnut finish, and the woofer foams might even be in good condition.

Best of luck, keep us posted.

[jeff spicoli]

ra.ra you said in one post what I was trying to say in 7!! LOL!!

[tysontom]

....... postscript here.

Just happened to stumble on Jeff's parallel post on AK, and at least a small bit of information has dribbled out. See attached pics here - - - turns out there are (were) two separate auctions from same seller. One auction is for a pair of pine AR-3's (mis-identified as 3a's); and the other auction is for a pair of AR-3a's in oiled walnut (see tag on backside).

Each listing had very minimal information about any aspect of the speaker quality, so I can only suggest caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware!). So, if Jeff did in fact purchase the 3a's (the real ones, not the mis-identified pair), it appears that they do indeed have walnut veneer and not pine. The one frontal pic in the listing does show a very glossy finish, so either this photo was shot while a fresh coat of oil was still wet, or the cabinets have been glop-coated with some other product, which if desired, should be removable with chemicals and/or abrasives.

jeff 3.jpg jeff 3a.jpg jeff 3a rear.jpg

The AR-3 pair was priced correctly, higher than the normal price for a pair of AR-3as, but the seller called them AR-3as. As it happens, the AR-3 pair that was shown appears to be early versions, probably made in 1959, although I couldn't make out the serial number. The very early AR-3s are quite rare these days. Noticeable differences were the non-beveled cutout for the level controls, Masonite-type grill panel, raised tweeter-terminal strip, 2-inch midrange without the white-tinted butyl-rubber gap surround, lack of fiberglass under the dome and the AR-1-styled woofer without damping rings or cone ribs. Only the earliest AR-3s were built in this manner.

Note the attached 2-inch AR-3 dome image. This is the early style, first year of production, 1959.

--Tom Tyson

[jeff spicoli]

They were shipped yesterday and UPS has not updated the tracking info. Hopefully I'll get them on Saturday. Its about a 5 hour drive from where I live to KC

[jeff spicoli]

Here are the speakers that i bought on a whim!! I was so excited getting them i could hardly wait. I have a feeling somthin' just aint right with them??

I have a feeling the seller literally used one newspaper for each box!!! I think I'm going to be done with buying stuff off the internet for awhile!

[jeff spicoli]

To me it looks like there are 2 different speakers by the looks of the back of them. It looks like the serial number was hand written on one and the other i can barely make out the numbers. Plus the fact that the woofers look wrong? What do you guys think? Can the be fixed? or should i just move on?

[jeff spicoli]

the more i look at them the more depressed i get!!