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AR-6 Unfinished Pine orphaned pair arrived today


owlsplace

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The price of vintage ARs is eternal vigilance. These came from an estate sale via a middleman who unfortunately marked up the cabs a bit trying to pry the grill cloth off.

Otherwise they don't look too bad and were never painted or oiled for that matter since leaving the factory. There is a little edge chipping on the cabs and a plant pot shadow on top of one which is fairly light.

Was there a consensus on the best finish for these? I am thinking Watco clear at the moment or maybe add to the original BLO.

What is the best way to remove the soiling from the wood. Oil soap? Bleach?

Hoping not to sand these much if possible due to the thinness of the ply veneer.

Best woofer surround foam replacements?

One tweeter is dimpled. Not sure if it can be pulled out without damage. Any ideas.

They have Aetna Pollak pots.

No rust on the linen cloth staples so I'm imagining these spent their entire life in Nevada's semi-arid climate.

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Here is what I looked like when these were made. I just finished tech school and was headed home on leave and on to my first duty assignment. Yet a couple more years before I would buy my first pair of ARs.

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Crossover with mystery coils and 10MFD cap

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Full back papers

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After buffing with 00 wool

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Roger

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Very nice!

To fix the tweeter dimple, find some tube that is a little bigger than the dome. Wet the dome thoroughly. Use the tube to suck the dome out. Let dry thoroughly (no problem in Reno). If desired you could brush on a very thinned coat of water-based foam adhesive.

For the foam surrounds, try contacting MSound msound@shentel.net Tell him you're a CSP member and he'll sell you either a full kit or, if you want, just the foams (assuming he has them in stock).

To clean I'd avoid anything with oil. Maybe wipe with a solution of TSP/bleach/detergent. Don't soak--it will raise the grain. Then a very careful sanding with 220 or higher grit, by hand, being especially careful at edges and corners.

I think I'd try to keep the pine looking natural and raw, but protect from dirt etc. Maybe a couple of coats of flat spray lacquer.

Good luck with a great find.

-Kent

edit: See Post #6 below. I think Gene's recommendations regarding cleaning and NOT finishing are best.

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Hey Roger,

Happy to see that this pair of speakers ended up with you - - - and it's good to have a peek inside your cabinets. As I mentioned to you offline, my first pair of AR-6's had serial numbers similar to yours (31XXX) and no surprise, they seem to have identical crossover components (see pic attached).

I will try to dig up and share two fairly recent threads that discuss ideas and opinions about the unfinished pine cabinets, but for now I'll just throw this out there to consider: I have a somewhat rare pair of 4x's in pine (I opted to laboriously strip the thick paint....ugh!), and my current thinking is that the less finish the better - - - I may just leave them totally raw.

Re: your woofers, when I saw the cross-hatch and the ribbed cones, I suspected this might mean you had the alnico woofers, which your pics have now confirmed. These are really great drivers, and if no one else chimes in before me, I will try to direct you to appropriate foams - - I believe there are two products, both available through M-Sound, that Roy has tested for compliance and has advocated in this forum. I've tried both types and they each work very well for 8" AR woofers.

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I don't know how bad your stain is, but... Oxalic acid in crystal form is what I used on these.

It also comes as an ingredient in deck cleaner, and it's easier to get in this form.

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If the only problem you have is dirt and not staining, stick to dry methods for cleaning:

http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/resources-ressources/ccinotesicc/7-1-eng.aspx

Unifnished pine ARs came exactly as the name described: unfinished. No wax, no BLO, no clear coat, nothing but bare wood, ready for final sanding and finish (if any). The usual buyers were people planning on putting them inside other cabinets, like consoles, or to paint them. If your intent is to preserve their inexplicably high collector value, then you shouldn't be planning on putting any finish on them that you can't completely remove. That pretty much limits you to paste wax, which can be removed with naptha or other mineral spirits. Be sure to choose a wax that does not contain any silicone.

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Hey Roger, nice find. I too am looking at options for a set I have. If resale value is important then then the choice is do nothing. For mine, I am leaning towards a gel stain bold treatment, but am still weighing options.

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Thanks, I knew you guys would have some good answers. The conservation material is good. I remember a church in Oberammergau, Germany where they cleaned an entire Renaissance wall fresco with moist pieces of bread.

Personally I'm fond of shellac and beeswax but pine ply doesn't have any sex appeal regardless of how much work you put into it so I'm leaning towards a non-penetrating topcoat that can be removed and/or if I have time, I may build a birch ply slip case since the speakers are small anyway another box may give them a little more character.

I am amazed by some of the work the conservation guys do. Here is another outfit. http://www.blackburnrestoration.com/wood_finish_conservation_wilderstein_historic_site.html

First, let's get some foam on these and see how they sound :)

Roger

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First, let's get some foam on these and see how they sound

Yeah--I cringed a little when I saw the video on that auction site and the seller was playing rock music through woofers with rotted foam! Apparently no harm done :D

I'm not familiar with the 6. In fact, never even heard of them! I have a pair of 4x's and "had" a pair of 7s so I guess the 6 is sort of in between (?)

Looks like your patience paid off (and you didn't have to be "that" patient).

Keep us posted with every step!

-Kent

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I was reading a very long restoration thread last night over on AK and it had a bunch of guys that really know their stuff chiming in on the wood refinishing. One of the things I picked up on was that very few of them go much beyond 180 grit sanding prior to oiling etc. They go higher during the application of oil or finish product. If you stick with the bare wood, or just apply a wax or something over it, maybe this is when going down into the 400 range on the sanding grit would do well and make the pine really smooth.

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Yeah--I cringed a little when I saw the video on that auction site and the seller was playing rock music through woofers with rotted foam! Apparently no harm done :D

I'm not familiar with the 6. In fact, never even heard of them! I have a pair of 4x's and "had" a pair of 7s so I guess the 6 is sort of in between (?)

Looks like your patience paid off (and you didn't have to be "that" patient).

Keep us posted with every step!

-Kent

Fortunately, I didn't watch the video or I may have hesitated! Enough foam was still intact to keep the voice coil centered so I don't think there is a problem there. They move freely anyway. Roy Cs comment on Geoff's voice coil problem has me a little concerned and wondering if there is a preventative measure that can be readily applied. I usually don't play the AR's that hard and switch to the ADS' if I want loud but normally prefer the mellow sound of the AR's.

Patience, yes, who knows, maybe some 4's in unfinished pine or some LST's are on the horizon :)

Roger

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I was reading a very long restoration thread last night over on AK and it had a bunch of guys that really know their stuff chiming in on the wood refinishing. One of the things I picked up on was that very few of them go much beyond 180 grit sanding prior to oiling etc. They go higher during the application of oil or finish product. If you stick with the bare wood, or just apply a wax or something over it, maybe this is when going down into the 400 range on the sanding grit would do well and make the pine really smooth.

I have done a wet-sanded Watco finish with 320 grit before. It produces a nice waxy finish but I would save that for the veneer refinishing. It is quite a bit of work.

Roger

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I restored a pair of the AR6 a couple of years ago.

I haven't listened to them since so can't remember how they sound.

Nice, those look like Euro cabs. Same or different crossover?

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-125249-0-19961400-1424966933.jpg

Roger

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With this new AR-6 thread, it's probably a good time to re-post the several varieties of this model's crossover - - - once again, many thanks to CSP member RLowe for assembling this helpful drawing. Roger, you've clearly got the (A) version, but my guess is that the Euro pair in post #11 probably has one of the other two versions.

In terms of components, this version of crossover is every bit identical to the innards of many vintage AR models with one notable exception: the small Nichrome wire connected to the pot lug. I note this only because I have found this wire rather difficult to work with when restoring the pot. The wire is very stiff, but worse, there is almost no slack in its length so it becomes a fussy, tight connection to de-solder and then re-solder.

In terms of the auction video, I, too, had a reaction but mine was very different from Kent's. My amusement was with the all-in-one receiver/eight track machine :blink: that provided the source material, and very naively, I assumed that the woofers had intact surrounds since he was actually pumping sound through them and the pair appeared so well-cared for. Well, at least the music was Hendrix.

The discussion about cabinet treatment options will go on forever, whether the veneer is pine or walnut. Roger is correct that the original pine will never be more than the non-glamorous species that it is, but there are some good ideas proposed here for finish options (wax, shellac) that might be mostly reversible. For my next clean-up project though, I'm leaning toward the moist bread technique. :P

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Very nice!

....

For the foam surrounds, try contacting MSound msound@shentel.net Tell him you're a CSP member and he'll sell you either a full kit or, if you want, just the foams (assuming he has them in stock).

....

Okay, McPeak says they have new foam for $11 so we are go for lift off :)

Roger

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Fantastic progress already, but don't ignore those tired caps. I expect these will turn out to be great speakers.

I think I have a pair of surplus Madisound 10MFD caps leftover from the AR-5 project so I should be good to go on those.

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Will start cleaning the pots and replacing caps while waiting for the surrounds to arrive.

I am planning on finishing with a wipe-on dewaxed shellac after filling surface imperfections with a burn-in shellac stick and/or raising dents with a hot iron and damp rag.

http://www.antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm

Here is a supplier: http://www.shellac.net/dewaxed_shellac.html

Stopped by a local woodcrafter's store to pick up some oxalic acid. They didn't even stock bronze wool. May have to stop by West Marine. It is a pain to clean steel wool off all the drivers.

While there I renewed my interest in trying a veneer project. The person there wasn't up to speed on veneer so will need to do a bit more research before taking on a set of AR-5 cabinets. She recommended using Titebond to lay down the veneer. I don't think so. Cherry was the least expensive veneer out of the three they had in stock. The other two were maple and walnut.

Update on today's progress: Cleaned the pot on one speaker (actually didn't need it, planning on skipping the other pot), replaced the cap, added spade lug connectors to the woofer and put every thing back together with wire nuts. Soldering inside those cabinets is a royal pain :) besides I may want to make changes later.

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Used Kent's technique to pull the dome back out on the tweeter. It was a challenge requiring perseverance while wondering if I was going to destroy it in the process. See post #1 for the before shot. Prepped one woofer for a new surround.

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Roger

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Nice job on the Tweeter!

yeah, looks good Roger. Can you point me in the direction of Kent's technique that you reference. Probably right in front of me but I call myself stupidhead for a reason.

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SH:

Just suck it :lol:

To pull out the dimpled dome, find a tube (maybe a vacuum attachment) that is the diameter of the outside of the dome. Wet the dome (it's OK) then suck it out. I've used a vacuum to do this but that's a little scary so just ..... suck it.

Let it dry thoroughly. If it seems soft from the crumpling you can apply a thinned coat of water-based woofer foam adhesive. Aleene's Tacky glue may also work, but thinned.

-Kent

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Thanks Kent for the tip. I probably would have put a hole in it and pulled it out then sealed the hole otherwise. I guess you could superglue some toothpicks on and do it that way also. This is a much easier way to do it.

I ended up heating the clear tubing I used with a heat gun to make it pliable enough to get a good seal around the dome. I had the tubing on hand from another project but it is a standard box store item. You can see the end of it in the photo above.

I am planning on using Aleene's for the surrounds. It seems some of the pros use automotive gasket cement. Any thoughts?

Roger

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