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$6100 for pair of AR-3 early serials!!


script56

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I have a pair of AR-3 with non-working midranges. Recently I acquired a pair of 1.5 inch dome midranges from AR58. So theoretically I can build an updated version AR3. And someday I can boast to my grand children that your grandpa's pair of speakers could be worthy $6300:)

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This whole thing is pretty fishy. Relisted today and the seller said there was some kind of a scam at the end of the original auction. Way too much money and way too much hype from the seller.

der

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It' s a lot of money for two old speakers, indeed. However, if AR 3 were in production today, probably their price will be higher. Many current speakers with poor components and average cabinets are high priced and bad sounding. AR 3 is probably the only non - obsolete speaker from late fifties/early sixties : deep and fast bass, smooth and neutral midrange, sparkling and vivid highs, transaparency and the ability to handle great power .

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Can you elaborate more about the perceived sound difference between AR3 and AR3a? From the crossover schematics, the low pass series inductor for AR3 is only 0.4mh vs 2.8 mh for AR3a. If everything being equal, AR3 would have a more controlled(damped) low bass than AR3a?

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I have both AR 3 and 3a, and in my opinion 3 has a slightly deeper bass and it' more controlled , but not in the low-end : it seems more linear, without the little " bump " in the mid-bass clearly audible in 3a 's response. AR 3 has a very smooth midrange , perhaps a bit " cold " , and vivid , clean highs , just like an electrostatic . Probably the best highs I 've ever heard from a dynamic loudspeaker, absolutely better than modern good quality dome tweeters like Scan-Speak or Seas, and better than 3/4" domes of AR 3a or AR 10Pi. AR 3a shows marvelous, incredible human voices , but can you detect sometimes a little " honkyness " in that midrange? And the same in AR 10Pi? Well, AR 3 it' absolutely free from any coloration of sound.

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So, what your saying is that AR erred when they introduced the 3a and that it was not really an improvement in sound quality but rather a step backwards? I heard a pair of 3's 40 odd years ago but don't really recall my impression. At the time I already owned my 3a's.

der

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AR speakers are in my life since my birthday, my father had AR 2 ( that I still have ) in 1960. Then AR 3 and, in 1968/69, 3a. So, 54 years of AR listening gave me some experience with these speakers. I believe both 3 and 3a are the best speakers , globally, ever made in hi-fi history. Which one is better? I don' t know, they 're very similar but at the same time each one has its proper personality. AR 3 is Ed Villchur' s AR, while 3a is Roy Allison' s AR. Mr. Allison developed the concept of the maximum dispersion, reducing diameter of domes and lower crossover frequencies . In fact, AR 3a offers a more powerful midrange , better dispersion, a wider and bigger scene. However, AR 3, to me, shows a better linearity , a very precise timber of acoustical instruments , so close to real music. Every speaker has the " genetic " sound of its designer. I had KLH Six and Advent Loudspeaker, different speakers but same imprinting. In 1978 , for my eighteenth birthday , I received a pair of excellent Allison:One, and these speakers reminded me immediately AR 3a typical sound , evident, rich midrange and good but not excellent highs, and a very deep and well damped bass . Incredible dispersion, perhaps excessive in little rooms. I don' t know if AR 3a is an effective step beyond, but I think the original Villchur's AR 3 is the speaker that comes closer to real music. In so many years I 've had a lot of speakers , including Magneplanar Tympani T1D, Bowers&Wilkins 801 , ProAc Studio 1 , but only AR 3 and 3a are still in my home.

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Thanks for your insight in AR3 vs AR3a. Personally I rather like the sound of electrostatic speakers. The combo of AR3 woofer, AR dome midrange and one of those ESS Heil tweeter may just get me what I like to hear in a speaker:) BTW, the topend of ESS Heil tweeter sounds very musical to me has anyone tried to use AR dome midrange with ESS tweeter?

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Interesting stuff. I remember hearing AR3's at Custom Stereo in Columbus, Ohio in about the 1968-69 timeframe. The 3a was available then as well and that's what I ended up with. I had a friend that had 4 - 3a's in his listening room driven by a massive array of McIntosh amps. So, in fact, I auditioned the 3a much more extensively than I ever did the 3's. Most people were opting for the newer speaker. I have never been sorry that I bought mine and I have basically listened to nothing else since.

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ligs - I 've listened to ESS AMT 1B many years ago. Sparkling , clean highs , maybe too sparkling to me. In late fifties Jantzen made electrostatic cells to match AR 1W, but never listened to it. Probably excellent sounding combo.

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der - I have 4 - AR 3 driven by Crown and Soundcraftsmen power amps, if You 'll decide to visit Rome I 'll be pleased to have a listening session ! I have also a pair of 3a, so we can make a direct 3 vs. 3a. It' s a long hop from Ohio, but in Rome we have a lot of classic art masterpieces ........and excellent meals and wines!

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Thanks for your insight in AR3 vs AR3a. Personally I rather like the sound of electrostatic speakers. The combo of AR3 woofer, AR dome midrange and one of those ESS Heil tweeter may just get me what I like to hear in a speaker:) BTW, the topend of ESS Heil tweeter sounds very musical to me has anyone tried to use AR dome midrange with ESS tweeter?

Give it a go. I'd probably just run some AMT speakers at the same time as the ARs using separate amps to balance the sound. I liked the gossamer highs of the AMT back in the 70s. The PE Heils will run about $700. Read the reviews over there to get an idea. I know you can find some ESS speakers around for less, but then I'm not sure the lifespan of those drivers. The Dayton AMTs 4 ohms may actually drop into the cabs at less than half the price of the Heils. Don't get me going. I may try their 8 ohm minis in my current AR-5 rebuild project. :rolleyes:

Roger

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Roger,

Our reading materials(or perhaps experience) must overlap somewhat:)

I had an opportunity to acquire a pair of ESS Performance 5 speakers with a working pair of AMT Heil monopole tweeters at a garage sale. In a simple 2-way with a 6.5" Klipsch woofer, the highend just sounds right to my ears. My friend and I both agreed that Joshua Bell's violin just sounded so much more vibrant and full of emotions than any tweeters we heard before.

I have always been more particular about the treble quality. In my AR days, I replaced my AR3a tweeters with AR11 tweeters. In my DIY speakers I have played with JVC ribbon, Linaeum, Bohlender Graebener Neo3 and Neo8 and in recent years settled on a ceramic(CMMD) Infinity tweeter from the Cascade series.

Now with the newly acquired AR58 midranges(200044-0) and ESS Heil tweeters, a 3-way would be an very interesting project.

The resurgence of AMT(Heil) tweeters is a good news for DIYers , some are close to $1600 a pair (Mundorf). Even Martin Logan is using AMT tweeters in many models. There must be some "sound" reason behind it.

BTW, ESS stands for Electro-Static Sound and is back in business.

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der - I have 4 - AR 3 driven by Crown and Soundcraftsmen power amps, if You 'll decide to visit Rome I 'll be pleased to have a listening session ! I have also a pair of 3a, so we can make a direct 3 vs. 3a. It' s a long hop from Ohio, but in Rome we have a lot of classic art masterpieces ........and excellent meals and wines!

I can certainly attest to that, as it has been my pleasure to visit Adrianno on a few occasions for extended listening sessions and fine meals. I'm hoping to get back there again this coming spring. Our oldest daughter lives in Italy, so it's the perfect excuse to go listen to vintage AR speakers with a good friend halfway around the world.

Steve F.

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Roger,

Our reading materials(or perhaps experience) must overlap somewhat:)

I had an opportunity to acquire a pair of ESS Performance 5 speakers with a working pair of AMT Heil monopole tweeters at a garage sale. In a simple 2-way with a 6.5" Klipsch woofer, the highend just sounds right to my ears. My friend and I both agreed that Joshua Bell's violin just sounded so much more vibrant and full of emotions than any tweeters we heard before.

I have always been more particular about the treble quality. In my AR days, I replaced my AR3a tweeters with AR11 tweeters. In my DIY speakers I have played with JVC ribbon, Linaeum, Bohlender Graebener Neo3 and Neo8 and in recent years settled on a ceramic(CMMD) Infinity tweeter from the Cascade series.

Now with the newly acquired AR58 midranges(200044-0) and ESS Heil tweeters, a 3-way would be an very interesting project.

The resurgence of AMT(Heil) tweeters is a good news for DIYers , some are close to $1600 a pair (Mundorf). Even Martin Logan is using AMT tweeters in many models. There must be some "sound" reason behind it.

BTW, ESS stands for Electro-Static Sound and is back in business.

I had an invite to a concert last evening by a composer friend who was having some of his work premiered. We sat fifth row center and I was listening critically. The hall was packed. Turns out my ears aren't as bad as I thought! Reproducing that sound in a small room on stereo equipment would cost more than I am willing/able to venture, if it could even be done. My neighbors would run me out of town at any rate. The previous concert I had attended was outdoors and that is an entirely different sound stage. So I am quite content listening to different speakers and/or combinations of speakers according to program, level, mood and whether the neighbors are around.

I am definitely game for trying out some AMT drivers in place of the old fading AR domes. May have time in January ...

Adrianno,

If I'm ever in Rome your venue will be on the itinerary along with other sensory treats -- aural and oral :P -- we can at least show the younger generation we know how to find the time to enjoy the finer things in life.

Roger

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Well Roger, it will be slow food vs. fast food and slow listening vs. fast listening !

Alas, all my foreign travel has been work related, so chances of my going to Italia are slim at this point -- not in much of a hurry these days, especially if wine is on the menu, which it should be. The composer/friend I mentioned spent some time in Siena studying music back in the day. We ended up traveling together quite a bit working on several projects in the Middle East, Peru and Oceania.

So Adrianno, fast or slow, either way, music defines most of our lives and allows us to remember it.

Roger

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