lakecat Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Picked these up tonight from an area gentleman and was shocked to find them in pretty good shape for the price ($25). The woofers have been refoamed and tweeters seem to be in good shape.....but the mids are in need of refoam...if possible. First time I have laid eyes on a pair. There also is no grills.The cabinets are in very good shape and will be an easy refinish. Couple of questions,.....1. Do I look for new mids or can these be refoamed?2. Were the grills just foam?.....as there is assorted circles of Velcro tabs on cab.Lastly....what's with all the this black foam around the drivers? On the tweeters....on the mids...and around the foam surround on woofer.....thanks for any help.Will get pics tomorrow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 lakecat -Replacement mids for the AR-12 aren't all that common, and can be kind of pricey.Try contacting Bill at Millersound for his advice on restoring these drivers - I think they had a 2 1/4" cone.The original grills were foam - I believe Vintage AR offers wood-framed replicas for sale.The mess around the drivers is what's left of the foam-backed adhesive that AR used to enhance the appearance of their speakers with the grills removed.Over time, the foam deteriorated, leaving the gummy black residue and the original adhesive tape still attached (see the image below).Bill Legall replaces the dissolved trim around the woofer frame with some sort of fuzzy adhesive product that looks pretty good.The midrange presents more of an aesthetic problem, and the adhesive tape on the tweeter could be protecting the two leads, so be careful.25 bucks is a great deal for these speakers - good luck with them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thank you for the info. Simply Speakers has a foam kit for the mid and wondering if it's alright to use. I take it the 12 is a later version of the 5?....with it's 10" woofer.Will check AR for the grills....thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthropologo Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Buried in this topic/thread is way i refoamed my AR12 mids; still have not found replacements for blown tweeter: Need help for AR-12 refurbishStarted by rumblestrip, Jun 04 2012 05:27 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Hi....couldn't find thread so decided to get the Simply Speakers foam for these. Has a slight roll...so not perfect but only thing I could find. I also picked up some black foam self adhesive sheets at Hobby Lobby. Not exact but will work. AR didn't have any grills so found a company that makes foam grills to your size. Emailed for a quote but haven't heard back yet.Anxious to hear these as specs show a good range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Got the quote back for beveled 3/4" black foam in size for the 12. It was $80 plus shipping. I am passing but can give addy to anyone interested. I might try something else. I have speaker grill material here so need to come up with grill frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 lakecat -Replacement mids for the AR-12 aren't all that common, and can be kind of pricey.Try contacting Bill at Millersound for his advice on restoring these drivers - I think they had a 2 1/4" cone.The original grills were foam - I believe Vintage AR offers wood-framed replicas for sale.The mess around the drivers is what's left of the foam-backed adhesive that AR used to enhance the appearance of their speakers with the grills removed.Over time, the foam deteriorated, leaving the gummy black residue and the original adhesive tape still attached (see the image below).Bill Legall replaces the dissolved trim around the woofer frame with some sort of fuzzy adhesive product that looks pretty good.The midrange presents more of an aesthetic problem, and the adhesive tape on the tweeter could be protecting the two leads, so be careful.25 bucks is a great deal for these speakers - good luck with them!There is another issue with the AR12 midrange driver: this novel driver did not use a spider for the inner suspension, and thus it relies on Ferrofluid to hold the voice coil centered in the gap. If the Ferrofluid has dried, then there could be problems, so rebuilding this driver might require new foam surround (and a half-round type will probably work okay) for the skiver and replenishment of the Ferrofluid in the gap if that has dried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Interesting....how would one know if fluid is needed?...and how is it replenished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Interesting....how would one know if fluid is needed?...and how is it replenished?You could unsolder the tinsel leads and actually remove the cone and voice coil from the magnet assembly. If the Ferrofluid is okay, it will remain in the gap, and you can purchase kits with new Ferrofluid to replenish the gap if necessary. I think Ferrofluid goes on both sides of the voice coil and former. I've never done this act, so I'm not speaking from experience, but it should work, and it should not be too difficult. You might need to shim the voice coil if it did not center correctly with the Ferrofluid. You may need to clean the old Ferrofluid from the gap and start new with new Ferrofluid, but I don't know the best way to do this. Hopefully, the old Ferrofluid is okay and the voice coil is centered in the gap properly and free to move properly. Then, your only worry would be to get a new surround on the cone, and you can get traditional half-round surrounds to fit, but it may affect the free-air resonance of this driver somewhat.Before you unsolder the tinsel leads, you should be able to look down into the gap to see if it looks okay and if the cone moves without scraping the sides of the gap. You could also cut back the dust cap and look on the pole piece and inside gap as well. You might check with Roy C on this site to see what he's done with this driver. He's had a lot of hands-on experience with rebuilding AR drivers.--Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthropologo Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Hi....couldn't find thread so decided to get the Simply Speakers foam for these. Has a slight roll...so not perfect but only thing I could find. I also picked up some black foam self adhesive sheets at Hobby Lobby. Not exact but will work. AR didn't have any grills so found a company that makes foam grills to your size. Emailed for a quote but haven't heard back yet.Anxious to hear these as specs show a good range.try this one - Need help for AR-12 refurbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 try this one -Need help for AR-12 refurbishThanks....interesting that little has changed. I should get my foams on Monday and think they are probably the same as the ones you did. The mark trick will be helpful. I decided to make up my own grills and made them like you do for the AR3a's. I even had enough of the 3a fabric left over from 123 Stitch and used that. I have to say that it blows away the foam look and really like it.I used 1/4" oak plywood and then added depth buy cutting 1/8" paint sticks to a 5/8" width and glued and stapled those to the oak plywood. It makes the grill almost come to edge of cabinet and keeps grill fabric away from drivers. Did the foam grills touch the drivers? I am gonna refinish the cabs also and give them a new look. I will post pics when done later this week. Gonna look sharp. Just hope the sound is worth all this work!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Well....got the mids from Simply Speakers...and wrong size....even though they advertised them as fitting the AR12. In fine print they told me it MAY have to be spliced....so I sent them back. I saw where a poster here had some that fit from Speaker Works...measured and ordered them. They fit perfect. Got one done and tested to see if they work properly.....and....I was stunned at how nice it sounded! This speaker is clear...clear....clear.....and powerful....bass and mid. I was simply shocked at how nice it played as I usually have to warm up to a speaker.....and this is only one playing!...lol. It is one bad azz speaker. That mid is incredible and bass is deep and smooth.I made my grills and added the 3a cloth....and I think it makes them look cool. Screw that foam. I do think these outperform the 5 and can't wait to see if the other speaker is just as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Pics of grill......it wouldn't load in last post....odd. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Well..got the other mid to dry and tried both speakers today...and I am stunned at how nice these sound. The sound is clear and sharp...and bass is punchy and smooth. Voices come forward on these and not lost in sound..impressive.Going to refinish cabs now and make these like new. Keepers for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 This is a perfect story of salvaging and re-furbishing an excellent speaker for fairly short money, and it's always nice to hear a tale with a happy ending (i.e. satisfied owner). The tiny re-foam on those mids looks very good, and although it is not "original", I always like the linen and walnut look, so a thumbs-up from me on the new grille cloths.Those cabinets should spruce up in no time at all, so I'm left to ask about the unmentioned elephant-in-the-room: the crossover network. Didn't this series of speakers often use those black/red electrolytic caps (Temple, Callins, etc.) that have so often drifted far from their original values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 This is a perfect story of salvaging and re-furbishing an excellent speaker for fairly short money, and it's always nice to hear a tale with a happy ending (i.e. satisfied owner). The tiny re-foam on those mids looks very good, and although it is not "original", I always like the linen and walnut look, so a thumbs-up from me on the new grille cloths.Those cabinets should spruce up in no time at all, so I'm left to ask about the unmentioned elephant-in-the-room: the crossover network. Didn't this series of speakers often use those black/red electrolytic caps (Temple, Callins, etc.) that have so often drifted far from their original values? Ra.Ra....I know you are a AR fan like me and I wasn't expecting a whole lot from these 12's when I got them. Never heard them and didn't know much about them..but curiousity got me when he had them for $25. I am finding out that I got a nugget of a speaker and am still shaking my head when listening to them. These blow away the 5's and the KLH 5's I had. I am doing some research on these now as they are so good. Here is a couple of posts from owners....and I couldn't agree more....1. I have owned all three of these AR models as well has ar90's and AR3a's (no longer have the AR11's or the 90's) and prefer the AR12 to any other AR speaker I have owned or heard. The only time they fall short is in a very large to massive room (500 sq ft or more) where the 10/11/AR3A/90 may have the edge when it comes to bass repsonse. Sonically IMO they easily outperform the AR3A and AR10 as well as any of the JBLs and HPM's I have owned. That mid range driver in the AR12 is simply outstanding and in my opinion, one of the best ever made. It is truly magical. Too bad and very odd that it was only used in that single speaker model. The 12 just got everything right. You can play Miles Davis, Ted Nugent, Pink Floyd or Bob Marley at any volume and still get the correct experience. I am 62 and have been heavily into quality audio since I was 16 and the AR12's are my "deserted island" speakers hands down. 2. I'd say they are as good or better than any other AR speakers I've heard. I think if they weren't so rare, and more people had heard them, you'd see them mentioned frequently alongside the 3as and 2axs, as the "best" vintage AR speakers. They are almost completely "under the radar" because of their rarity, not because of sonic shortcomings compared to other ARs. If I were you and had a chance to get them, I'd grab them. Anyways..... thank you for the compliments and I really like the cloth grill over that cheap foam. Does bring it back to the family in a way. I haven't removed a woofer to look at crossover yet as I waiting to see if I was successful on the mid refoam...but I got to tell ya..from the way they sound....I would bet the caps are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Glad to hear you found real sleeper.Price asked or paid for any vintage gear does not necessarily reflect quality anyhow. It may... but many amps, speakers, TT etc are totally undervalued and some are overvalued too. Things can change too. When I bought H/K Citation 11 & 12 few years ago... they were not too expensive. Now it seems that asking prices for half decent units are about twice that they used to be few years ago for good ones.It pays to early bird to pick up the best...Best RegardsKimmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Thank you Kimmo. I just got lucky......but my curious nature had me get them. Had absolutely no idea they were this good. The guy I bought them from was in his late 60's and he said these were his parents!...lol....so I knew they were never abused. The tweeter is excellent with these mids. I am playing Lou Reed's New Sensations right now and just shaking my head at the clarity and forwardness of the voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I finally got the 12's done... The sound is so nice that I didn't even check on the caps. The pots are switched so not sure if they corrode or not. I haven't even played with those yet but will. One pic shows how I made the grills. Two coats of satin poly on veneer after sanding and staining. I really like this look and are keepers for sure for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hey catGreat job! I love the fact that your all-time fave speakers ended up costing you $25 + a lot of painstaking work. That must be VERY satisfying!I agree with ra.ra. that the AR-3a style grilles look great. I've had some experience with the foamspeakergrilles website and although they're nice people to deal with I agree the product is not worth the price (unless you MUST have original looking grilles).Happy listening!-Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hey Kent...thanks. They are my favorite ten inch woofer AR! The 303 is still my fav...followed by my 3a...but this one is close...Yea....the foam grills were too high for my taste....and actually like this better now that it is done. I also checked the pots in back and they work fine. Do you know if those corrode or not? They just switch three positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 From you description it sounds like those have toggle switches. Wouldn't hurt to switch them back & forth a few times but there should be no significant corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Agree with Kent.......I believe they are simple SPDT (single pole, double throw) switches found in several AR's of that era after the rotary pots were discontinued. Those are not normally prone to failure, and I'm not even sure if they have any openings to receive a squirt of De-Ox. (At the expense of beginning to sound like an annoying automatic-recapper, methinks you still might want to consider replacing those black/red Callins caps for even a bit more sparkle to that luscious sound. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (At the expense of beginning to sound like an annoying automatic-recapper, methinks you still might want to consider replacing those black/red Callins caps for even a bit more sparkle to that luscious sound. )Ditto.I've never been inside a 12 but IF you have the black & red caps they WILL leak and/or fail. John O'Hanlon explained the physics. Think it had to do with the black PVC and the red whatever sealant expanding & contracting at different rates. They should be replaced.According to the schematic from TT, the 12 xo uses one each 40uF, 20uF, 10uF and 6uF.There is an AR-12 xover on ebay now and on that one it looks like the 40uF may be a big blue can whch "may" still be fine. There are 2 Callins type caps and a small gray NPE.My humble suggestion would be to get some Madisound 10uF surplus caps and use those for the 10 and 20, and get 6uF Carlis for that value. If the blue can is the 40 I think I'd leave it but you could either bundle some more surplus caps or get an NPE (A Bennic 40uF is $1.50 but four 10uF surplus caps is just $2.40).-Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks guys as that is a big help and will be a winter project. I am curious to see what's in there anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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