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AR3 unfinished pine ones. For now...


Turbon

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Hi. My first post and I'll hope you pardon me if I won't be as clear at times as English isn't my first language and neigther is it my iPhones as it at times doesn't allow me to write what I want to communicate :).

Foods on the table and who am I to neglect that over some old speakers... :) I'll be back.

Regards

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Hi. My first post and I'll hope you pardon me if I won't be as clear at times as English isn't my first language and neigther is it my iPhones as it at times doesn't allow me to wrote what I want to communicate :).

Foods on the table and who am I to neglect that over some old speakers... :) I'll be back.

Regards

Hello and welcome!

It al depends on the food and who is cooking :lol:

Bon apetito!

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Thank you guys.

Unfinished is maybe not quite true - there are signs of clear laquer especially on the frames (better wood?). On the rest there are patches with rests of laquer. Still, I don't like the look of them even though my wife came by in the man cave and thought they looked cute... Cute? Now I'll have to give a thought on how to proceed. Maybe I'll start with describing the speakers with some pics and info about their whereabouts before I took the decision.

Serials: C41066 and C51213 I have started to rebuild the later one - the components tells me it was built in the fall of -66.

A guess is that the earlier was built in the winter of -65/-66. Why did the owner have two of them spread over allmost one year? I hope I can fill in on this later. A guess is that he bought one for mono and liked it and then came stereo...

But first things first :).

Anyone having one original fully functional tweeter for the AR3? I have ordered the HiVi Q1R's but I still wish to hear the originals even if they are old before I'll take the leap.
As I have understod the AR3 tweeter had a higher xo point than the AR3a so how would that affect the choise of cap and coil for the HiVi Q1R? All discussions I have found so far on the forum have been about the AR3a or others with similar xo's...
What paint would one use for the black baffle? Or is it better to leave it as is? I'll have to decide on this one later.
A picture count for atleast a 1000 words :).
post-176253-0-13513200-1435690539_thumb.
My popped tweeter :(

post-176253-0-49823800-1435690600_thumb.

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As I have read these unfinished pines are quite rare. I would be happy to trade them for cherry wood ones if they are less regarded. We keep our machinery and trade the wood only :) We'll carry our own freight costs also.

PM me if you find it interesting.

Regards

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Anyone having one original fully functional tweeter for the AR3? I have ordered the HiVi Q1R's but I still wish to hear the originals even if they are old before I'll take the leap.
As I have understod the AR3 tweeter had a higher xo point than the AR3a so how would that affect the choise of cap and coil for the HiVi Q1R? All discussions I have found so far on the forum have been about the AR3a or others with similar xo's...

A belated welcome Turbon!

The AR-3 tweeters are easier to find than the 3a's. The 3 used the same tweeter as the 2a.

Best to wait for Roy to advise re xo mods.

-Kent

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Welcome to CSP. Your communication skills are just fine, and I love the fact that your first post got interrupted by dinner being served. Those speakers look truly gorgeous, and with near perfect original cloth, too! I think it may be an acquired taste, but I have really grown to like the "blonde" look of the classic AR's - - - but I am sure that in Sweden, you have no shortage of attractive blondes :P .

Post a pic of the sides if you can - - from what we can see, your speakers may have the birch veneer option (see first pic of 2a's), particularly since you mentioned a lacquer finish. But then again, I believe the unfinished pine may have had a solid birch face frame (see second pic).

post-112624-0-58457900-1435706245_thumb. post-112624-0-15359300-1435706276_thumb.

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Thanks all for the welcomings :)

Carl answered on the xo part for the HiVi tweeter - same inductor as for the AR3a.

ra.ra - they are pine ones - no doubt but as you wrote the frames are most likely birch.

I'll try to attach a few pics but as I'm writing this on the iPhone - no guaranties. If I fail pics will be added later.

Yes, listen to Greg ;)

Regards

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Welcome to this forum

You must be closest active member to me.... and I also happen to have Quad 303 on my work bench under refurbishment... case is clean, some electrical issues to be sorted and rusty cover to be repainted.

As you happen to live in land of Stig Carlsson... may I ask some advice about Carlsson OA50 or OA52 models? I have tried to find nice pair with veneered cabs. OA50 models seems to be usually painted white or black. Do you have any reliable source for any of these models with reasonable prices?

Best Regards

Kimmo

PS Stig Carlsson shared some ideas of Roy Allison. Carlsson´s work for Sonab was highly successful, but sadly his own Carlsson Orthoacoustics did not so well.http://www.carlssonplanet.com/history.php

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Moi Kimmo.

Well you already found carlssonplanet. Tradera.se occationally have carlssons and of course blocket.se.

You could also try rehifi.se but they aren't on the cheap side.

Regarding my 303's I will probably switch the output transistors to faster, modern ones. But not this year as I have too many unfinished projects going on :)

Regards

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So far. Taken the sealant goop off the bass frame out down to a few 10'ths of an mm. That will do I presume. Ordered HiVis and caps. In work to to have 2 original tweeters - depends a lot on freight price from the states to Sweden. Wish to get one mid as a spare - hopefully from an not yet contacted AR enthusiast in Sweden...

Maybe I can persuade him to sign up... Maybe he is allready lurking in the shades :) - who knows.

As an experiment I have diluted the surroundings of the popped tweeter with bicycle deck repair gum. Later I found that the repair is about to fasten the 4 orange blobs with epoxy. The gum won't hold for the pressure so my broken one will probably pop in days I presume. I have repaired other elements and when the glue is still flexible and kept in place - make it play the tone most natural to the element in place during the time the glue dries. The EM force will make the coil to be centered at it's natural position. Equally afar from the opposing force... - Does it make sense?

Nevertheless - this is not the cure for my popped tweeter - I'll have to separate the front from the magnet - epoxy the blobs - put everything in place and play a tune for some days (No WAF - sorry (whats that sound from the basement? Is something broken?)) - all before anything cures...

So, when my experiment for now have cured in a feew days - the magnet will be separated and the blobs will be epoxied in place. This time it is more of fastening the magnet at the same position within a few 10'ths of an mm as the dome is fixed now. I should have started with this if I had thought a few steps forward. But I didn't. I welcome every broken tweeter to get this going as the way to refurbish the tweeters of old. They might not be the best but they might still carry the sounds of old.

Regards

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Thanks for the welcome David.

Ok, I couldn't move the screws holding the tweeter together. I peeled in some 5min epoxy as well as I could. They have hold together now for 3 days without signs of departing.

Now, about the mid. The glue that held the metal mesh in place was in a sorry state. The glue was brittle and changed to dust when touched. I took the mesh off and have cleaned it and got rid of most of the old stuff. What is the fine, textile ring fore that was glued in between the mid and mesh? What glue should I use to fasten the mesh with?

Regards

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Hi Turbon

Be sure to download the AR-3a restoration guide http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_schematicss/restoring_the_ar-3a/

Much of the information there is relevant to your AR-3s.

Your mid is shown in figure A9 on page 29 of the guide.

Many early mids and tweets had fiberglass or other material under the mesh to tame the harshness of the driver's sound.

Good luck.

-Kent

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Hi Kent.

Yes, downloaded and read a few times.

A picture is worth more than a thousand words :)

post-176253-0-35343000-1436727432_thumb.

What's that ring doing - stop the mesh from singing maybe?

Regards

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Thanks all for the welcomings :)

Carl answered on the xo part for the HiVi tweeter - same inductor as for the AR3a.

ra.ra - they are pine ones - no doubt but as you wrote the frames are most likely birch.

I'll try to attach a few pics but as I'm writing this on the iPhone - no guaranties. If I fail pics will be added later.

Yes, listen to Greg ;)

Regards

Turbon, yes, the grill molding used with the pine-plywood cabinets is solid birch.

BTW, I take it that your picture of the two AR-3 speakers in your shop was taken with an iPhone. Try pointing the phone with the volume +/- buttons facing downward. Apple did not feel the need to add software to their image package that prevents "upside-down" pictures when sent to computers and laptops other than Apple products, but if you point the iPhone with those buttons always facing downward, the pictures should come through right-side-up each time.

As for the ring inside the protective grill: it is a damping/dispersion device that was added to the AR-3 midrange in the early 1960s to improve the smoothness of the driver's off-axis response. The outer mesh ring was part of the system used to hold the protective grill to the metal top plate. The earliest domes didn't have this mesh.

Another additional piece of fiberglass was put in the middle, above the dome, at some point, too, and this helps prevent the midrange dome from popping out as readily as the tweeters. The fiberglass pad on top of the dome helped offset the pressure from the fiberglass damping pad under the dome, but this came in a few years after the introduction of the AR-3. The tweeter did not have this, and the fiberglass damping pads under both domes puts constant pressure on the underside of the dome, thus allowing the dome to break from the gap occasionally. AR also went from a clear butyl-rubber around the gap to a white butyl substance with the midrange, and this materials begins to harden after many years. thus lowering the sensitivity of the drivers.

--Tom Tyson

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post-100160-0-26454300-1436753009_thumb.

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Hi Tom.

Thanks a lot for your answer.

"The outer mesh ring was part of the system used to hold the protective grill to the metal top plate. The earliest domes didn't have this mesh."

So, should I glue it in or leave it out? Heck, I did put in some time cleaning it so in it will go :).

I can't see it will do any harm. I believe some kind of heath glue was used originaly and the outer mesh might have been used as an holder or armour for it. As the area is quite large one would need a heathed ring if one wishes to use heath glue again.

Regards

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For a quite a bit ago I ordered the HiVis from Europe Audio in the Netherlands I believe. Still not available :(. Have any of you other Europeans dealt with them?

Regards

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  • 8 months later...

Hi.

Well, I got my HiVis at last before Christmas but haven't had time to deal with them yet. I also bought some caps for a rebuild of the x-overs.

As I understand the restoration guide is for 3a so I'm still not clear about what inductor to add for the HiVi Q1R... Could someone enlighten me please...

Another idea that might seem as herresy - I have to fix the skin on the unfinished pine... I will not sell them so they will not enter the market before I'm gone, I am too used to pine as an scandinavian. I have Ikea pine shelves in the basement that I first painted with white stain and then added a few layers of laquer on. They are close to birch now. I am contemplating on giving the 3's the same treatment so that they will fit in nicely. I believe that was the whole idea about the unfinished ones. What do you think? Utter blasphemy?

Regards

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Restoration is stalled for the moment - other restorations (the house) is decided to be done first ;(...

When I'll take the leap - pictures will be added :).

I tried to fix my popped tweeter - it hold for some weeks but one morning it popped again. At that time I already had ordered the HiVis.

I will probably try to find an original tweeter regards of this - just to keep.

Regards 

 

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