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AR3 WAF? We will see tomorrow!


stupidhead

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Nice collection, SH.

I was pleased to see your unfinished 4x's, too. Most likely, I'll be leaving my pair of pine cabinets raw, and if they prove too difficult to keep clean, possibly add a very thin and color-neutral protective finish.

* * see posts 29, 32 and 33 regarding unfinished pine.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7798&page=2

For a good black finish, I don't think you need the help of Mr. Steinway. Several coats of a good quality alkyd or lacquer should do the trick just fine.

* * see posts 8 and 9 for classic AR's in black.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7855

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Nice collection, SH.

I was pleased to see your unfinished 4x's, too. Most likely, I'll be leaving my pair of pine cabinets raw, and if they prove too difficult to keep clean, possibly add a very thin and color-neutral protective finish.

* * see posts 29, 32 and 33 regarding unfinished pine.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7798&page=2

For a good black finish, I don't think you need the help of Mr. Steinway. Several coats of a good quality alkyd or lacquer should do the trick just fine.

* * see posts 8 and 9 for classic AR's in black.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7855

BLO may be a good choice. I think its gets warmer as it ages.

https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/galleries/dovetail-boxes-gallery/#jp-carousel-25840

Roger

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BLO has certainly entered my thoughts, as well as Danish Oil treatment. Mahogany too, and others. I am going to get a sample panel of pine plywood and start experimenting with stains. I am pretty sure I will do something with these as opposed to leaving them raw, any other ideas.

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I know this originated as an AR-3 topic, but on the subject of unfinished pine cabinets ....

Even tho' I've already spent my two cents in post 26, I'd like to raise this discussion to a nickel. Full disclosure: I love an oiled hardwood finish as much as the next person who enjoys maintaining or restoring these speakers. Further, I've read all about the virtues (and shortcomings) of BLO, tung oil, danish oil (my current application), varnish components in solutions, and in one case, the use of olive oil to preserve the original metal badges (satin spray lacquer for me). Maybe I've even seen mineral oil mentioned.

Not an overly experienced wood finisher here, but it's been my experience that there is a huge difference in finishing a close-grained fine hardwood like mahogany or walnut (majority of AR speakers) and a utilitarian species like flat-sawn wide-grained pine. Topical treatments (lacquer, urethane) often work reasonably well with walnut/mahog., but many of us prefer the added depth and softer luster that a penetrating oil brings to these species of veneer.

With the high contrast nature of the variegated unfinished pine (not often as vertically-grained as AR-sample shown), I do not think the same practices apply. In fact, I believe any penetrating non-opaque finish (oil, stain) will only serve to highlight and amplify the contrast in this flat grain pine - - - subjectively, that very well might be a desirous effect for someone, but not for me. As I've stated, if any finish (meant to resemble real wood) is to be applied, I'd be advocating a light-handed neutral-color topical treatment. Embrace the original pine! [Alternatively: black paint or new hardwood veneer.]

If I could see some successful examples of oil/stain finish on unfinished pine AR speakers, I would be pleased to yet again learn something new and will gladly eat my hat. Otherwise, I am afraid you may end up with something like this example shown, and once you start with penetrating color, there is no turning back.

post-112624-0-05469100-1416370849_thumb. post-112624-0-89674700-1416371097_thumb.

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Hello Robert et al,

I have effectively hijacked my own thread. LOL.

A bunch of interesting ideas about finishing (or not) a set of bookshelf speakers. The picture ra.ra has posted is exactly what I don't want! The majority of the house trim has been finished using a Minwax "Honey Pine" Polyshades product. We are happy enough with that, but don't think it would be right for a set of speakers somehow. When the time comes to do these I will likely throw up another thread and see where it goes, in the meantime I will likely get a sample of similar grained pine and do some "sperimenting".

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I know this originated as an AR-3 topic, but on the subject of unfinished pine cabinets ....

Even tho' I've already spent my two cents in post 26, I'd like to raise this discussion to a nickel. Full disclosure: I love an oiled hardwood finish as much as the next person who enjoys maintaining or restoring these speakers. Further, I've read all about the virtues (and shortcomings) of BLO, tung oil, danish oil (my current application), varnish components in solutions, and in one case, the use of olive oil to preserve the original metal badges (satin spray lacquer for me). Maybe I've even seen mineral oil mentioned.

Not an overly experienced wood finisher here, but it's been my experience that there is a huge difference in finishing a close-grained fine hardwood like mahogany or walnut (majority of AR speakers) and a utilitarian species like flat-sawn wide-grained pine. Topical treatments (lacquer, urethane) often work reasonably well with walnut/mahog., but many of us prefer the added depth and softer luster that a penetrating oil brings to these species of veneer.

With the high contrast nature of the variegated unfinished pine (not often as vertically-grained as AR-sample shown), I do not think the same practices apply. In fact, I believe any penetrating non-opaque finish (oil, stain) will only serve to highlight and amplify the contrast in this flat grain pine - - - subjectively, that very well might be a desirous effect for someone, but not for me. As I've stated, if any finish (meant to resemble real wood) is to be applied, I'd be advocating a light-handed neutral-color topical treatment. Embrace the original pine! [Alternatively: black paint or new hardwood veneer.]

If I could see some successful examples of oil/stain finish on unfinished pine AR speakers, I would be pleased to yet again learn something new and will gladly eat my hat. Otherwise, I am afraid you may end up with something like this example shown, and once you start with penetrating color, there is no turning back.

attachicon.gifbad 4x stain.jpg attachicon.gifpine.jpg

Have to agree with you on this. Pine plywood always looks utilitarian and is soft and easily damaged. A clear lacquer finish to seal the wood with a color coat on top will allow you to change your mind in the future. Mine came with a Formica skin. Not sure I want to change it at this point although I would like to seal the back and bottom at some point.

Roger

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Phew - - - glad to get that off my chest without any feisty blowback. Last thought about finish here, then we can return to our regularly scheduled programming (AR-3).

Certainly, before diving in whole hog with any finish, the prudent measure is always to conduct sufficient testing on some similar scrap material. "Sperimenting" is the best and only way to make a confident decision about this - - so maybe a new thread is in order when SH gets around to this project.

While I can understand if the bleached appearance of the unfinished pine is undesirable amongst a collection of darker hardwood boxes, there are still a few other good options to consider, some of which have been stated here. Someday, with the right cabinets, I intend to create my own version of AR's "soft-black" finish; and much like the Cowardly Lion, I am trying to summon up the courage to attempt my first veneer project to generate some love for a pair of sweet AR-7's that are clad in the unfortunate simulated walnut vinyl.

My main point here was to urge a "proceed with caution" alert before slathering on a coat of mahogany stain, or any other irreversible and unpredictable finish. Certainly not all staining efforts turn out with such dramatic effect, but attached is one more pic to make the point.

post-112624-0-18384800-1416415717_thumb.

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I agree with ra.ra as well. I've never seen a stained "Unfinished Pine" AR cabinet that didn't end up looking like a cheap bookshelf.

Another consideration is that AR "collectors" are often willing to pay more for relatively unscathed unfinished pine specimens. Any attempt to finish it will lower its resale value...if that is of concern.

Roy

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I think if I wanted to have a soft grained look on pine, I would thin oil paint 4 to 1 with paint thinner. Stain is too harsh on soft pine. The pine is more rare but I really don't care for it. Makes the AR cabinet look cheap. A darker taupe oil thinned and a follow up water based polycrylic protection would look nice.

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My Decorator series (birch) Heresy's are white. Kind of a chalky eggshell white. It is well done but I am not sure i like it, especially with the black grilles. But, I can see a really nice piano gloss white being good looking.

My impression of pine has always been it is either knotty bare wood or painted. Why did they make the pine versions? So they could be painted to match an interior?

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Why did they make the pine versions? So they could be painted to match an interior?

Yes...and they were the economy version at the time. The irony is that unfinished pine specimens in good condition today usually fetch more than their walnut brethren. It is hard to find them without paint, or the aftermath of various "finishing" techniques, applied to them.

Roy

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I agree with ra.ra as well. I've never seen a stained "Unfinished Pine" AR cabinet that didn't end up looking like a cheap bookshelf.

Another consideration is that AR "collectors" are often willing to pay more for relatively unscathed unfinished pine specimens. Any attempt to finish it will lower its resale value...if that is of concern.

Roy

Hello all,

First of all, Robert no worries about blowback from me! I posed this looking for any and all insights and experiences others have had. I am in no rush and will weigh all of my options before doing anything. If I decide to do anything, I can be pretty confident in saying it will not be a standard staining job, resulting in the examples of ugly end result pictured in your and der's response. A little background on the origin of these is I was gifted these by an AK friend who knows I enjoy all things AR. I will proceed with standard internal refurbishing (pot cleaning and cap replacement, sealing surrounds if needed etc....) and I envision using them with this...

post-170704-0-36282200-1416500297.jpg

which I have found to be a very nice pairing, and I am toying with the idea of color. By the way, not my picture, but my 2230 which has been completely gone through by Pat Font will have this same red face plate mounted when it is all said and done. Our home is loaded with color (think Fiesta ware) and unfinished pine is just an offense to that. These seem to be an avenue for being creative and unique with the resulting speakers, and all options are open.

As for resale Roy, really not a consideration. On the other hand I do not want to get a bad rap here in the forum(s) for doing something that is generally considered blasphemy.

Lastly, painting is not currently what I am considering, although I could get exactly the color I want if I did. A quandary for sure!

as "sperimenting" commences, I will be sure to post progress so I can get more thoughts/opinions.

Geoff

post-170704-0-36282200-1416500297_thumb.

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Hey Geoff (glad we don't have to call you "stupidhead" any more ;) )

That is one cool looking Marantz! Almost makes me wish I hadn't sold my 4270.

As for painting, given your "Fiesta ware" decor, maybe paint the cabs to match your tie-dye shirt in post #18. Glad to see aging hippies are alive and well! :lol:

Seriously, I'd consider Roy's comments. I'm guessing the 4x in utility cabinets are pretty rare. I bought a pair of 4x's in walnut when I was a starving college student in 1969 for $88/pr. How much cheaper could the utility cabs have been?

You could sell those speakers to a collector who really wants the unfinished Ponderosa Pine and buy a pair of walnut veneered 4x's. Or look for some 2a's in lacquered Mahogany. Could be a win/win situation.

Just my 2 cents....

-Kent

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One more peep from the peanut gallery. As expected, the voices are beginning to emerge from those that do not care for the raw pine, and that's OK. As they say, "to each his own". Like Kent, I wondered if you might consider trading the pine 4x's to another collector for a different model, but perhaps that would be a difficult choice since these were uniquely gifted to you by a friend.

So, assuming you were to keep this pair, and you can not live with the pine look, you are not looking to maximize resale value, and you'd prefer not to incur the wrath of the vintage speaker elite, at least one solution is perfectly clear - - - short of a custom veneer job, a completely valid approach is black painted cabinets, for the following reasons:

1. It is your own idea (post 24).

2. Painting this pine is fully sanctioned (see AR sample in post 30).

3. Black painted cabinets were a rare factory finish (see second link in post 26, re: soft black).

4. Re: home decor, black goes with anything.

Another approach, not fully sanctioned (by me, at least), if you must add to a rainbow of decor, is to follow the example set by this budding Jackson Pollock.

post-112624-0-19486600-1416506965_thumb. post-112624-0-01068300-1416506982_thumb.

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Another approach, not fully sanctioned (by me, at least), if you must add to a rainbow of decor, is to follow the example set by this budding Jackson Pollock.

attachicon.gifAR-7 grille pollock.jpg attachicon.gif4x price 1971.jpg

Maybe nice flame job will do the trick... just kidding.

Best Regards

Kimmo

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One more peep from the peanut gallery. As expected, the voices are beginning to emerge from those that do not care for the raw pine, and that's OK. As they say, "to each his own". Like Kent, I wondered if you might consider trading the pine 4x's to another collector for a different model, but perhaps that would be a difficult choice since these were uniquely gifted to you by a friend.

So, assuming you were to keep this pair, and you can not live with the pine look, you are not looking to maximize resale value, and you'd prefer not to incur the wrath of the vintage speaker elite, at least one solution is perfectly clear - - - short of a custom veneer job, a completely valid approach is black painted cabinets, for the following reasons:

1. It is your own idea (post 24).

2. Painting this pine is fully sanctioned (see AR sample in post 30).

3. Black painted cabinets were a rare factory finish (see second link in post 26, re: soft black).

4. Re: home decor, black goes with anything.

Another approach, not fully sanctioned (by me, at least), if you must add to a rainbow of decor, is to follow the example set by this budding Jackson Pollock.

attachicon.gifAR-7 grille pollock.jpg attachicon.gif4x price 1971.jpg

Ok, now I know what to do with all those wine corks and gaudy bits of tile laying around :wub:

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