ar_pro Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Has anyone had success replacing the grill cloth on the AR-9 series that used the plastic frames?I've replaced numerous grill panels on the AR-9 and AR-90, but these had the wood-composite frames, and were very easy to staple into; this current set of AR-91 speakers uses the thinner plastic version of the frame.The sides & top of the plastic frames are quite narrow & delicate, and it looks like it wouldn't take much pressure to break them.I tried putting a test staple into the beefier bottom portion of the frame, but my manual stapler didn't have enough power to drive the staple all the way in; even with 190 lbs of frustrated audiophile pressure applied. Is an electric stapler the answer?There's no way that those sides would take the pressure that was applied to the bottom of the frame with that test staple, and I'm concerned that an electric stapler would just shatter the plastic.I'd love to have a photo of how the AR factory originally attached the cloth to these frames - it's absolutely perfect.Photo 1 shows a closeup of the frame's side, and photo 2 shows how thin that side actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I would guess they used a pneumatic stapler ... would spray adhesive or Pliobond work here?Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Were the originals stapled? Or just glued/adhered somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Is an electric stapler the answer?There's no way that those sides would take the pressure that was applied to the bottom of the frame with that test staple, and I'm concerned that an electric stapler would just shatter the plastic.I bought an electric stapler when I had trouble driving staples into hardened Masonite. IMHO the electric gun did not have any more power than an Arrow T-50 stapler. Stapling into plastic seems like an impossible task. As Roger said, they probably used a pneumatic stapler and my guess is they used special staples. Also, plastic tends to become brittle with age.It will be a PITA but what about GOOP?Also--check out this page: http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/grill-cloth.htmGood luck!-Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 hot glue gun.....or I wonder if you can find something like a double sided carpet tape or 3M VHB tape meant for bonding fabrics....for a custom look, using AR3a style linen on AR9's front grilles would look sharp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I bought an electric stapler when I had trouble driving staples into hardened Masonite. IMHO the electric gun did not have any more power than an Arrow T-50 stapler. Stapling into plastic seems like an impossible task. As Roger said, they probably used a pneumatic stapler and my guess is they used special staples. Also, plastic tends to become brittle with age.It will be a PITA but what about GOOP?Also--check out this page: http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/grill-cloth.htmGood luck!-KentNice link but if I remember correctly isn't the technique for linen grill cloth a bit different since it doesn't stretch so easily? I haven't actually done one yet but I'm working up to it.Someone mentioned spraying the linen with water to get a shrink fit.Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Nice link but if I remember correctly isn't the technique for linen grill cloth a bit different since it doesn't stretch so easily? I haven't actually done one yet but I'm working up to it.Someone mentioned spraying the linen with water to get a shrink fit.I assumed the OP was using the stretchy black cloth on the AR-91. The technique with linen is essentially similar but you're right--not much stretch. When I do linen I get it reasonably tight & smooth, then spritz it with water from a spray bottle and dry with a hair dryer. Comes out nice n tight. I usually follow up with a spray of ScotchGuard and another drying.-Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 One of the primary challenges with any grille cloth project is getting the weave of the cloth to be reasonably parallel+perpendicular to the grille frame, and each type of woven fabric presents unique problems in this regard. I have viewed that human-speakers tutorial before, but what caught my attention this time is noting that they advocate beginning at the corners and then working toward the sides, whereas my limited experience has been exactly the opposite - - - starting at the center points of the sides and subsequently stretching toward the corners, similar to the technique described in the 3A restoration guide. Perhaps a stretchy fabric requires a different technique?To the OP, no hands-on help from me about stapling into plastic, but it looks like others have faced a similar dilemma. Sounds like it may require an electric or pneumatic stapler, as other members have stated, but if the fabric is a poly blend, a heat stapler may be able to melt small points of the two materials together. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-power-machinery-hand-power-tools-sharpening/205798-tool-needed-staple-thru-hard-plastic.html#b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Double-sided sticky tape might do the trick. It comes in different widths, thickness and colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 No luck with an electric stapler into the lower, more robust portion of the plastic frame - the staple just won't penetrate.I'm guessing that AR originally utilized some sort of jig and specialized stapling process -those old staples are in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 One of the primary challenges with any grille cloth project is getting the weave of the cloth to be reasonably parallel+perpendicular to the grille frame, and each type of woven fabric presents unique problems in this regard. I have viewed that human-speakers tutorial before, but what caught my attention this time is noting that they advocate beginning at the corners and then working toward the sides, whereas my limited experience has been exactly the opposite - - - starting at the center points of the sides and subsequently stretching toward the corners, similar to the technique described in the 3A restoration guide. Perhaps a stretchy fabric requires a different technique?...Their technique may have something to do with the sides pulling towards center when the fabric is stretched if the frame has any give to it. I've experienced that problem rescreening windows before.Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcheung Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Will you be able to use the existing holes left from the old staples ?Or would be it possible to drill pilot holes for the staples ?Or was the plastic warmed up so it was soft enough for the staples without spliting?Probably I am taking rubbish hereDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have used spray contact cement with great success when stapling was not an option. Holds well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan461 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 If at all possible, use the old staples and holes.Carefully pry out each staple.Maybe a very little glue in the hole or on the staple will secure it.This will look the neatest and have the least impact on the frames and the grill cloth.These old speakers require lots of patience and gentle handling.Easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 You've read my mind, Stan.Plan B involves removing the original staples intact, and then either re-using them, or driving the same sized staple into the original holes with a tack hammer.I'm also going to build a temporary inner frame to attach the stretched fabric within the original plastic frame, and then attach the fabric to the plastic frame as already mentioned.Once the cloth is secure, I'll be able to trim off the excess - assuming the staples hold, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 A little late but maybe the method I used in the attached pdf would work....Replacing the AR3 Grille 4.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I just finished re-clothing a pair of modern (circa 2000) AR3 floor standing plastic grille frames. They were not stapled, but instead glued around the back edge (about 1/16" wide!). The owner had a cat....well, you know the rest of the story...I used Aleen's Fast Tack glue. My heat gun helped move things along and trusty Exacto razor knife to trim off the excess. The new black synthetic fabric was obtained from Parts Express. It was the better one of the two they offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlsplace Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I just finished re-clothing a pair of modern (circa 2000) AR3 floor standing plastic grille frames. They were not stapled, but instead glued around the back edge (about 1/16" wide!). The owner had a cat....well, you know the rest of the story...I used Aleen's Fast Tack glue. My heat gun helped move things along and trusty Exacto razor knife to trim off the excess. The new black synthetic fabric was obtained from Parts Express. It was the better one of the two they offer.Nice ... Aleene's has quite a little niche market going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll have to try the fast tack on my 58s's....I was planning on using my hot glue gun, but if I can do it without burning myself, well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll have to try the fast tack on my 58s's....I was planning on using my hot glue gun, but if I can do it without burning myself, well, I use a heat gun to help set up the Aleen's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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