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Aged linen grille cloth


ra.ra

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Like many owners of classic AR's, I have multiple speaker grille frames covered with original linen fabric that has suffered varying degrees of discoloration over time. Of course I have thought about replacing the fabric, but since most of them are in otherwise very good condition, I feel that some attempts at cleaning would be a more prudent first option.

Regarding the replacement option, I have read many of the CSP threads and opinions, including, but not limited to: Irish and Belgian and Chinese linen, Michael' Crafts and Jo-Ann Fabrics stores, burlap, muslin, various thread counts, window-washing scrim fabric, and finally, the desirable 18 ct. Lambswool linen from 1-2-3 Stitch.

Regarding the cleaning option, I have read about claims and attempts at using OxyClean, hydrogen peroxide, a product called Pink Solution, Clorox bleach, and finally dry cleaning (with frame). I have finally gotten so tired of looking at this discoloration and since I have one grille with a small hole, I thought I should try my own experiment at trying to freshen up the look of the fabric.

Attached is one pic showing some initial test results. These are matching grilles from an old pair of 4x speakers - - - top (dark) is the untouched version and bottom (light) is the test candidate shown in two stages - - woofer opening has had two applications and tweeter opening has had just one. I have used a simple diluted solution (approx. 50-50) of household bleach, applied from a fine mist sprayer to both sides of the fabric and then worked into the threads with a bristle paint brush. Initially, I used a hair dryer to blast out any residual droplets of moisture, but then merely air dried the grille outdoors in full sun. The frame remained square and flat, and the fabric was now newly taut.

This was a fairly quick and easy task, and I feel it may eventually serve my purpose, but before I proceed further, I thought I would cast around for any more recent thoughts on this. The difficulty seems to be settling on the 'correct' degree of brightening and then achieving a reasonably uniform appearance. If anyone might happen to have a leftover scrap of the 1-2-3 linen, I would certainly appreciate having a piece as a control swatch for comparison.

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Much like the plastic model guys who are always looking for the "real" representation of WW2 military colors, I don't think the original hue of the cloth exists anymore - perception is always variable even at the instant of newness while time makes it even more so. Having said that, I like the 2 two treatment section best - it looks clean but also offers a subtle patina that complements and carries the real age of the piece.

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Thanks, Anthro, I think you're probably right about the perception issue. As a follow-up, attached are some additional images resulting from some more attempts with this process. I decided to first try to freshen up some small grilles from a pair of AR-7's, and these pics show them next to the AR-4x grille from the original post.

The first two pics show full-view 'before' and 'after' of the 7 grilles next to the 4x grille; and the three final pics show close-up views of before, one-step, and two-step treatments. The subtleties in the color of these grilles are difficult to communicate even though I fiddled with these images a bit to try to get a bit of consistency - - - these pics were shot in somewhat different lighting conditions and I also wanted to keep the pic files small for posting here.

It is interesting to see the (original?) grille color where the AR-7 badges were removed, and I sort of used this as a gauge or a target objective for lightening the fabric. Not sure if these 'results' pics might appear too white in this post, but they are not like that at all. No question that the fabric looks fresh, but it still retains a warm light-beige or off-white that looks terrific with the walnut cabinets.

Perhaps my biggest concern before tackling this effort was fear of ruining the hardboard (Masonite) grille frames with the spray moisture. Yes, they got wet, but never soaked or saturated. By working patiently and gently in stages, with good drying conditions (sun and breeze), my initial concern was never a problem.

For my purposes, this technique seems to work just fine. I am pleasantly pleased with the results, and plan to try this with other AR linen grille cloths.

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Thanks for the encouragement, HarryM - - - I always enjoy your posts on this site, too.

Not particularly wanting to oversaturate this site with pics of off-white linen, but I thought these most recent efforts are worth showing, too. Over the last couple days, I applied this technique to four speaker grilles from AR-4x's, and the results, by no means perfect, are a significant visual improvement. My central point here is that, not unlike the cabinets, veneered in lovely walnut (or other species), the linen grilles from the classic era can also be given a new lease-on-life with only a little focused TLC.

With the cab restorations, we have advocates for many products generally available to many of us - - - Minwax, Howard's, Formby's, Watco, and others. All of them are very good. The grilles, generally, are a little different, perhaps, but they really shouldn't be. Mild cleansers, water, and in my case, diluted bleach, comprise an inexpensive toolkit with which to attempt to freshen the discoloration of the grille cloths that occurs with age. Even though I am very pleased to know that 1-2-3 Stitch has an extremely accurate replacement cloth, for those of us like me (a cheap bastard) who do not have much expendable income for this hobby, I am pleased to report that there is an effective Option B.

The pics attached show three stages of lightening the linen - - - before, single treatment, and double treatment - - - from two different views: one close; the other more distant. This technique can be applied, and then dried, and if required, re-applied and then re-dried, ad infinitum, in a nuanced manner, until the desired shade is obtained. For now, this process is working well for me, and I am most always in favor of restoration over replacement.

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  • 2 years later...

I have a couple grilles that have the linen including the 4x and now my 2ax that I just about destroyed having to get to the staples that held the grille on. I stopped by Joannes fabrics today and got a little of the linen they had in stock. It is 55% cotton 45% rayon. Similar pattern and a natural off white/ light tan color. Does the stuff from 123 stich differ? This new stuff if anything might be a denser stich? What count have we narrowed the grille linen down to being?

I took the original grille from my 2ax in the store with me and the gals thought if I felt the new linen needed to be a little darker, I should soak the new linen in tea.

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David:

The problem with 45% rayon is rayon does not shrink. OTOH pre-soaking in tea (or coffee) will cause some shrinkage if the fabric will shrink at all.

The method I use when making new grilles is to attach the linen to the frame with either staples or glue and spritz with water from a spray bottle, then dry with a hair dryer. This causes shrinkage, making the fabric nice and tight. I usually follow up with a spray coating of ScotchGuard.

Suggest you try the stuff you bought and let us know how you make out. The 45% natural fabric may be enough.

Robert:

Nice work. I have tried in vain to find a way to salvage KLH Model Eight speaker grilles. They are an unusual fabric that is quite stiff and glued directly to the baffle board. Often the cloth has water stains and streaks. Spritzing with diluted bleach from a spray bottle has worked in lightening the cloth but the streaks are still apparent (albeit lighter). Still looking for a solution to this problem. For now I'm making new grilles out of 1/8" Masonite covered with Irish linen. The one shown on the right below uses the Wichelt linen from 123 Stitch that is recommended for AR. Would love to find a way to save the original grilles.

-Kent

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Okay, so I have read more on the fabrics (including the paragraph in the restoration manual, duh) and understand the thread count aspect. Looks like the thread count of 18, or at least lower numbers is what to look for. I believe the material I got at joannes is a higher thread count. I looked but it did not have a thread count identified on the end of the spool. I might just play with it to see how the tea thing works, but not use it (maybe on the little KLH 32's).

Great thinking on the shrink it to tighten it JKent. Makes great sense. Do you think that Irish linen in your 2nd photo is close to the original color? Or were they a little browner?

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I've haven't tried this, yet, but potassium permanganate looks like a good candidate for aging grill cloth -- from WP: Potassium permanganate is one of the principal chemicals used in the film and television industries to "age" props and set dressings. Its ready conversion to brown MnO2 create "hundred-year-old" or "ancient" looks on Hessian cloth, ropes, timber, and glass.

You can also use it to purify water, start fires, etc

Roger

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Yes--18 thread count. Depending on how "authentic" a restoration you want, higher tc is OK. Many of us have used CharlesCraft Irish Linen in "Tea" which is 28 tc. It's avaialable from Michael's and used to be genuine Irish, now it's Polish but it's nice and it's cheap--especially when you use the 40% off coupon that seems to be available weekly.

I have no way of knowing for sure how close the current Wichelt Lambswool Irish Linen is to the original stuff used on AR speakers. It darkens with age of course. The Lambswool color is what AR experts Tom, Roy, et. al. recommended in the restoration manual so.....

Good luck.

-Kent

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That KLH radio with new fabric looks terrific, Kent, but I'm sure you'd prefer to be able to restore the original fabric - - very tough to do, though, when it's adhered to the board.

I seem to recall having read that there may have been as many as three different linen weaves used for the off-white AR grilles. I am pretty sure that I can document two, as shown in the first attached pic, where the 0 to 1 distance on the scale equals one inch. On the left is an early AR-4 grille, which has about 16 threads per inch; and on the right is a later AR-6 grille with a thread count closer to 20 or 21. These counts seem to vary slightly within the same piece of grille fabric, and in some cases the warp and weft counts seem to be different as well. All is good, though, because the beauty of this material is in its inherent irregularity - - see second pic for extreme 'slubbiness'.

[Definition of SLUB: a soft thick uneven section in a yarn or thread]

Until something better comes along, I plan to continue using the diluted bleach technique (with spritzer and cheap natural bristle paintbrush), but a few additional comments are in order. If possible, it is good to work in stages, lightening a bit more each time, but the only difficulty is finding the right balance between the bleach dilution and trying not to wet the fabric (and frame) more times than are needed. I think I was eventually more comfortable with something closer to 3 parts water to 2 parts bleach, but I do have to say that on one grille, I must have tried one too many applications because after drying outdoors in the sun, I returned to find the linen torn due to the tensile forces of drying shrinkage. Boy, did I feel stupid - - you gotta know when to call it quits.

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I must have tried one too many applications because after drying outdoors in the sun, I returned to find the linen torn due to the tensile forces of drying shrinkage.

That old cloth is delicate, and I "think" the bleach may weaken it a bit more. I think any of us who have tried to restore things have damaged a few. A baseball analogy may be appropriate: The guys with the most home runs also tend to strike out a lot. I think we strike out sometimes hoping for a restoration "home run." You seem to have a good batting average! ;)

-Kent

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The thread count went as high as the mid 20's as time went on, though it never reached 28. The closer the weave the greater the chance of losing higher frequencies.

The AR 18ct linen of the early 70's seems to represent the sweet spot, and is very common...and I seriously doubt there is anything closer today than the 18ct Wichelt lambswool linen. John O'Hanlon and I spent a great deal of time searching before finding it. He even examined fibers under a microscope and contacted cloth suppliers in Europe! I'm confident the Wichelt linen will eventually look like the original cloth does now. Attempting to accelerate the "aging" process may be risky considering it costs around $40 for enough cloth for a pair of cabinets.

As for other cloth options, cheaping out just doesn't make sense for folks who are concerned about authenticity in other areas of restoration, and/or the type/brand of caps to use, among other things. (Btw, cloth is a bone of contention between me and Vintage AR, who uses less expensive, less authentic linen on his replacement grills.)

It is obviously very difficult to clean the old cloth if any amount of water is needed, which can cause excessive shrinkage and warped grill frames. I seem to recall someone having old cloth cleaned by a dry cleaning service, but can't remember the details. I stopped trying to clean nasty cloth a long time ago. I simply replace it with 18ct Wichelt "lambswool" for AR speakers and "natural" for KLH speakers.

Roy

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so I have (actually my wife has) efforted cleaning a variety of clothes in various states of conditions. I have not ever used bleach as I know that bleach will effect the integrity of whatever it is in contact with. Arm and Hammer washing soda has been the most effective additive in the cleaning processes she has tried, but there is always shrinkage (not the George Costanza type) in all processes. Sometimes it is still a goof fit, others not so much. I have wrapped 4x grilles with shrunken cloth from a set of 2ax with fine result.

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A good *cheap* source of speaker covering of this sort is thrift store curtains. Linen-look stuff of a sheer nature is often available, and the price is nothing compared to the fabric stores. Dye pure-white material with coffee to get a nice biege.

Not for keepers, I wouldn't say, but a good way to improve unacceptable grills.

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I've haven't tried this, yet, but potassium permanganate looks like a good candidate for aging grill cloth -- from WP: Potassium permanganate is one of the principal chemicals used in the film and television industries to "age" props and set dressings. Its ready conversion to brown MnO2 create "hundred-year-old" or "ancient" looks on Hessian cloth, ropes, timber, and glass.

You can also use it to purify water, start fires, etc

Roger

Roger,

Wouldn't the potassium permanganate stain cloth purple?

I use this chemical in the planted aquarium hobby from time to time to kill snails.

Nasty oxidizer!

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Roger,

Wouldn't the potassium permanganate stain cloth purple?

I use this chemical in the planted aquarium hobby from time to time to kill snails.

Nasty oxidizer!

I'm pretty sure it depends on how it is mixed. The Finns used it on their military rifles to stain the gunstocks.

Looks like you can use it to get a quick suntan -- "One side-effect of using this chemical on the skin is that it temporarily turns the skin brown." http://www.thechemicalblog.co.uk/potassium-permanganate-uses/

"In the process of oxidising a substance, potassium permanganate produces the deep brown manganese dioxide, forming a stain that will discolour practically anything organic. It even stains stainless steel and, to some extent, glass." http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/podcast/CIIEcompounds/transcripts/potassium_permanganate.asp

Roger

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A good *cheap* source of speaker covering of this sort is thrift store curtains. Linen-look stuff of a sheer nature is often available, and the price is nothing compared to the fabric stores. Dye pure-white material with coffee to get a nice biege.

Not for keepers, I wouldn't say, but a good way to improve unacceptable grills.

Yeah, the curtain idea works well for re-upholstery fabric for chairs etc as well. Good call and I always forget to look for curtains.

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  • 2 months later...

The questions I have is this:

What color Wichelt 18Ct Lambswool Linen do I get?

Please see Roy's post, #14

18ct Wichelt "lambswool" for AR speakers and "natural" for KLH speakers

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