AR14 woofer

[wilson]

Hi,

I just found a pair of AR 14's at the dump. Unfortunately the tweeters are blown. I pulled the woofers and, other than the dust caps, they appear to be the same as the later ceramic drivers found in the last 2ax's and 5's.

Are they the same driver?

Thanks

[ra.ra]

Take a look here.

[wilson]

Interesting - I thought the only difference between 5'sand 2ax's happened very early - and that they used the same woofer after the very first 5's. What would the difference be between 5 and 2ax woofers in 1979?

[ra.ra]

There is a drawing in the library for the 200004 woofer that has 25 revisions, and it does include mention of the -2 and -3 suffixes. The speaker models 5 and 2ax are noted, as are the LST-2 and the 12, plus your speaker, the AR-14. No mention of the AR-8 on this drawing, however. The drawing shows a domed (not flat) dust cap, and there appears to be no differentiation of parts or assembly notes between iterations. The only clue that to finding any differences might be found in note 1 on this drawing which states: Refer Dwg. #206012 for test specifications.

For all intents and purposes, I suspect that unless you have an early AR-5 woofer or the 2ax woof with the alnico slug magnet, these 10" woofers are virtually interchangeable among these speaker models.

[owlsplace]

Never seen that model before. It may be a challenge finding the 1" tweeter at this point. The 28 and 48 may have the same driver. Here is an old post: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=816

Maybe RoyC can bring the tweeters back to life.

Roger

[RoyC]

Never seen that model before. It may be a challenge finding the 1" tweeter at this point. The 28 and 48 may have the same driver. Here is an old post: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=816

Maybe RoyC can bring the tweeters back to life.

Roger

...probably not, but there is a strong possibility Vintage AR (Larry Lagace) has new old stock replacements salvaged from AB Tech.

Roy

[djcheung]

Here is a pair of AR14 I refoamed last year.

David.

[wilson]

Thanks. I'll probably just refoam the woofers and try them in a 2ax or 5 - I have project pairs of both with no woofers.

I'll just file the boxes away until I stumble upon a pair of tweeters.

[Aadams]

One of mine had a bad tweeter. Replacements frequently appear on the "auction site", sometimes at reasonable prices.

[owlsplace]

One of mine had a bad tweeter. Replacements frequently appear on the "auction site", sometimes at reasonable prices.

There is a pair of 48B tweeters on the auction site for about $44 delivered: item number 161705638169. Would need to verify they are compatible. Here is the data: "The sticker on the magnets say 200054-0, and under that 561:8340."

Roger

[ra.ra]

The two correct part numbers for the AR-14 tweeters are shown on the parts list in post #2, with a good discussion of this speaker model in the attached thread - - see post 8 for mention of interchangeable drivers. Also attached is the (surprisingly complex!) crossover for the later version.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6852

[owlsplace]

The two correct part numbers for the AR-14 tweeters are shown on the parts list in post #2, with a good discussion of this speaker model in the attached thread - - see post 8 for mention of interchangeable drivers. Also attached is the (surprisingly complex!) crossover for the later version.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6852

AR14-XOVER-Specification-1.jpg

The 48B is not a correct replacement then. The AR-14 looks like a nice speaker though. I think I would favor a restore over cannibalization if it were my choice.

[ra.ra]

Agree with Roger - - this thread (and the linked thread) has raised my curiosity. Even here in New England, it is not common to run across the AR-14, AR-15 and AR-17 speaker models. As seen in post 7, the AR-14 and 15 have that very particular non-circular tweeter face plate. It seems that perhaps the AR-14 might have represented the apex of the 10-inch two-way models, on the heels of the earlier AR-8 and AR-2x. Just my suspicion (i.e. no personal experience), but I suspect that the 10" two-way models that followed into the early and mid 1980's (AR-38s, AR-30b) did not quite measure up to the AR-14. For me, it is that unique tweeter and the somewhat elaborate crossover that suggests a high level of engineering and build quality with this speaker model.

[owlsplace]

Agree with Roger - - this thread (and the linked thread) has raised my curiosity. Even here in New England, it is not common to run across the AR-14, AR-15 and AR-17 speaker models. As seen in post 7, the AR-14 and 15 have that very particular non-circular tweeter face plate. It seems that perhaps the AR-14 might have represented the apex of the 10-inch two-way models, on the heels of the earlier AR-8 and AR-2x. Just my suspicion (i.e. no personal experience), but I suspect that the 10" two-way models that followed into the early and mid 1980's (AR-38s, AR-30b) did not quite measure up to the AR-14. For me, it is that unique tweeter and the somewhat elaborate crossover that suggests a high level of engineering and build quality with this speaker model.

They shared the tweeter and low crossover frequency with the AR-16 which appears to be an even rarer model:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4351

I'm guessing the marketplace played a major role in paring down AR's 2-way offerings in those days. Looks like the 18's came out on top.

[Steve F]

I agree that the AR-14 was the best of the AR 10" 2-way models. 10" 2-ways are tough speakers because the power response really suffers from the 10" woofer beaming badly before it crosses over to the tweeter. Never hurt Advent's sales, however--another one of those "theoretical" disadvantages that never materializes in real life.

In 1976, I was at a store in Harvard Square MA listening to the 14 vs. the OLA. Except for the very deep bass, the 14 was so incredibly superior--smooth, uncolored, transparent. The OLA was a nasal, over-midrangy mess in comparison. But from a marketing standpoint, AR had long since blown any opportunity to win back dealers' loyalty. The ADDs were not the huge market winners that AR had hoped, and the 14--designed specifically to beat the OLA--never achieved its goal. Remember too, the 14 was $140 ea, vs the OLA $102/vinyl, $116/walnut. That's a lot more money for the budget-conscious buyer, especially to only get 2ax-level bass vs. the OLA's 3a-level bass.

Interesting--early 14's used a Peerless tweeter until AR made their own 1" dome. It had a FAR of 1050Hz and they crossed it over at 1300Hz! I wonder if they had a lot of blown tweeters.

Agreed again--those later 10" 2-ways--38's especially-- seemed to be just 'placeholders' in a lineup.

I always liked the 14 very much. Sounded and looked great.

Steve F.

[wilson]

Ok - you've convinced me. I'll restore them

[AR55]

The AR-14 is one of the best sounding 2-way speakers that AR ever produced.

I purchased a pair of AR-14's back in 1979 and still use them as the center and rear speakers in a 6.1 system that includes AR-11's for the mains and AR-15's for the surrounds.

When looking for replacement tweeters for the 14's, their 1" dome tweeters (200024) were also used in the AR-15, AR-28s and AR-48s.

[owlsplace]

Looks like one tweeter is available on the auction site: AR28S TWEETER Teledyne Acoustic Research 200024-1

Roger

[owlsplace]

The AR-14 is one of the best sounding 2-way speakers that AR ever produced.

I purchased a pair of AR-14's back in 1979 and still use them as the center and rear speakers in a 6.1 system that includes AR-11's for the mains and AR-15's for the surrounds.

When looking for replacement tweeters for the 14's, their 1" dome tweeters (200024) were also used in the AR-15, AR-28s and AR-48s.

Another pair of tweets on the auction site for BIN $60 delivered: 181779200942

[tysontom]

Agree with Roger - - this thread (and the linked thread) has raised my curiosity. Even here in New England, it is not common to run across the AR-14, AR-15 and AR-17 speaker models. As seen in post 7, the AR-14 and 15 have that very particular non-circular tweeter face plate. It seems that perhaps the AR-14 might have represented the apex of the 10-inch two-way models, on the heels of the earlier AR-8 and AR-2x. Just my suspicion (i.e. no personal experience), but I suspect that the 10" two-way models that followed into the early and mid 1980's (AR-38s, AR-30b) did not quite measure up to the AR-14. For me, it is that unique tweeter and the somewhat elaborate crossover that suggests a high level of engineering and build quality with this speaker model.

I agree that the AR-14 was the best of the AR 10" 2-way models. 10" 2-ways are tough speakers because the power response really suffers from the 10" woofer beaming badly before it crosses over to the tweeter. Never hurt Advent's sales, however--another one of those "theoretical" disadvantages that never materializes in real life.

In 1976, I was at a store in Harvard Square MA listening to the 14 vs. the OLA. Except for the very deep bass, the 14 was so incredibly superior--smooth, uncolored, transparent. The OLA was a nasal, over-midrangy mess in comparison. But from a marketing standpoint, AR had long since blown any opportunity to win back dealers' loyalty. The ADDs were not the huge market winners that AR had hoped, and the 14--designed specifically to beat the OLA--never achieved its goal. Remember too, the 14 was $140 ea, vs the OLA $102/vinyl, $116/walnut. That's a lot more money for the budget-conscious buyer, especially to only get 2ax-level bass vs. the OLA's 3a-level bass.

Interesting--early 14's used a Peerless tweeter until AR made their own 1" dome. It had a FAR of 1050Hz and they crossed it over at 1300Hz! I wonder if they had a lot of blown tweeters.

Agreed again--those later 10" 2-ways--38's especially-- seemed to be just 'placeholders' in a lineup.

I always liked the 14 very much. Sounded and looked great.

Steve F.

The AR-14 is one of the best sounding 2-way speakers that AR ever produced.

I purchased a pair of AR-14's back in 1979 and still use them as the center and rear speakers in a 6.1 system that includes AR-11's for the mains and AR-15's for the surrounds.

When looking for replacement tweeters for the 14's, their 1" dome tweeters (200024) were also used in the AR-15, AR-28s and AR-48s.

The AR-14 was definitely a fine speaker and one of AR's best 2-way speaker systems. It shared with the (over-designed) AR-16 the same high-quality, half-section LCR crossover on each driver, designed for smooth response. The crossover frequency for both the AR-14 and AR-16 was 1300 Hz. AR had designed these speakers to originally use the Peerless 1-inch dome tweeter, a ubiquitous tweeter design widely used throughout the audio industry; however, lab tests in both AR's UK and Norwood facilities discovered serious quality-control issues with the Peerless driver, and AR rejected its use and proceeded to designed its own 1-inch soft-dome tweeter to replace it. The AR design has the oval top plate, whereas the Peerless designs originally had a round top plate (with a few using a flat oval plate). The AR tweeter was nevertheless much better, more consistent and more durable than the Peerless design, but it borrowed heavily from the basic Peerless design.

The AR-14 was originally designed to compete with the hugely successful large Advent ("The Advent Loudspeaker"), and Acoustic Research went to great pains to improve the bass response of the AR-2ax/AR-5/LST-2 system to get deeper bass from the same basic 10-inch, 4-bolt ceramic-ferrite woofer. After many iterations, this standard AR 10-inch woofer (slightly redesigned cosmetically with a new cone and dome-shaped dust cap) was utilized in conjunction with the AR-11-sized cabinet to slightly lower the AR-14's system resonance (fc), resulting in a better bass output to compete with the Large Advent. It was quite close, but did not quite succeed, as the Advent's bass more closely mimicked the larger, 12-inch AR bass. As a result of the larger cabinet and other minor changes, the AR-14's (and the AR-12's) system resonance was 52 Hz., slightly lower than the AR-5/AR-2ax/AR-LST-2 (at around 56 Hz). In contrast, The Advent Loudspeaker was in the 45-46 Hz region, while the AR-3a/AR-11 was in the 43-44 Hz range.

Therefore, the Advent usually won in the bass-contest department when pitted against the AR-14, but the latter was much superior to the Large Advent in smoothness throughout the midrange and treble and in off-axis performance, as also noted by Steve F in a previous post. The Advent had a 1500 Hz crossover (using a less-sophisticated crossover, too) and a somewhat ragged upper midrange and treble response (see attachment) when compared with the AR-14. The AR-14 was probably too little, too late, of course, as most listeners didn't realize the subtle improvements of the AR-14 over the Advent, and many inexperienced audiophiles were stuck with the "thud-thud" bass response of the lower-reaching Advent woofer. In retrospect, AR probably should have opted for a new-design 10-inch woofer with a lower resonance that would nearly (but not quite) equal the AR-11 bass response, but it could not be justified.

--Tom Tyson

Attached anechoic response, on-axis, Advent tweeter with crossover in place.