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best power for new advent loudspeaker a-3's


abpurdom

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I had Smaller Advents when I was a kid, so am excited to have just bought some beautiful new Large A'3's. I have a Kenwood ka-305 integrated amp that i believe is 35 wpc. How well will that do with the Large Advents? If I buy another amp or receiver, any suggestions? Also what about speaker wire?

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Hi and welcome to the CSP

Not sure what "Large A 3's" are. Check this thread for identifying your speakers:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126376

If you have the /3's they are MUCH smaller than the Large Advents but they're nice speakers. One weakness: Poor efficiency, which means power hungry, so the more wattage the better. BUT... '70s amps had BIG watts. Your 35wpc (or 40wpc according to Orion) was rated according to a system whereby the amp had to produce a steady 35wpc rms at the rated distortion for an hour. '70s Japanese amps are valued in part because they were way underrated and were built like tanks (compare the weight to a new amp. Bet the Kenwood is about 15 pounds!). I suspect that unless you are planning to drive the Advents to ear-splitting levels in an auditorium, your Kenwood should be more than adequate (nice clean-looking amp btw). Given the size of the speakers, they are perfect for an office, bedroom etc. As long as the Kenwood is healthy you should be fine (IMHO, YMMV ;) )

Kent

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Thanks Kent. They are these: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187970 so I think they are the New Advents with the 10" woofer etc. Do you still think my Kenwood will do them reasonable justice?

brad

Hi and welcome to the CSP

Not sure what "Large A 3's" are. Check this thread for identifying your speakers:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126376

If you have the /3's they are MUCH smaller than the Large Advents but they're nice speakers. One weakness: Poor efficiency, which means power hungry, so the more wattage the better. BUT... '70s amps had BIG watts. Your 35wpc (or 40wpc according to Orion) was rated according to a system whereby the amp had to produce a steady 35wpc rms at the rated distortion for an hour. '70s Japanese amps are valued in part because they were way underrated and were built like tanks (compare the weight to a new amp. Bet the Kenwood is about 15 pounds!). I suspect that unless you are planning to drive the Advents to ear-splitting levels in an auditorium, your Kenwood should be more than adequate (nice clean-looking amp btw). Given the size of the speakers, they are perfect for an office, bedroom etc. As long as the Kenwood is healthy you should be fine (IMHO, YMMV ;) )

Kent

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Thanks Kent. They are these: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187970 so I think they are the New Advents with the 10" woofer etc. Do you still think my Kenwood will do them reasonable justice?

brad

Nice. Were you lucky enough to get the bullnose/real veneer ones? I believe the Kenwood will be fine, but maybe member PeteB will answer the thread. He's done a lot of work with large Advents and has a good write-up on crossovers here:

http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

I know the NLA (New Large Advent) will handle a lot of power, and too little power is always worse than too much, but I think the Kenwood has enough. Let's see what other Advent owners say. My own Advents (OLA--Original Large Advent) are awaiting restoration so my answers are more "theoretical" than practical. A Google search found this, supposedly from the OLA manual:

Recommended Amplifier Power:

Advent Loudspeaker 20 watts rms per channel (8 ohms)

A review of the OLA here says "While a good 25-watt-per-channel amplifier should be sufficient, 50 to 75 watts is not excessive." The NLA could handle higher wattage, but I would think 35 would be fine. That same review said "5 watts was enough to rattle windows with this speaker."

http://www.kallhovde.com/advent/speaker-reviews.pdf

Here is a sales brochure for the NLA. It says "The efficiency of the system has been carefully chosen to provide for reproduction of the lowest usable frequencies with amplifiers and receivers of good quality and medium power. While efficiency is lower than that of some comparably-priced speakers of more limited range,and will require a slightly higher setting of a volume control for the same acoustic level, it is no more likely to tax the actual power capabilities of the amplifier or receiver used in a home."

http://www.davidreaton.com/PDFs/New_Advent_Ad.pdf

Kent

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Do you mean did I get the ones with the nice cabinets? If so, yes, and they're in really great condition. I know I overpaid ($375 plus shipping, ouch), especially by the standards of all the folks on this forum who seem able to find them for almost nothing, but I wanted ones that were in really good condition and I expect to use them for a very long time so whats a few bucks over ten years or more? At least that's my rationalization.

Nice. Were you lucky enough to get the bullnose/real veneer ones? I believe the Kenwood will be fine, but maybe member PeteB will answer the thread. He's done a lot of work with large Advents and has a good write-up on crossovers here:

http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

I know the NLA (New Large Advent) will handle a lot of power, and too little power is always worse than too much, but I think the Kenwood has enough. Let's see what other Advent owners say. My own Advents (OLA--Original Large Advent) are awaiting restoration so my answers are more "theoretical" than practical. A Google search found this, supposedly from the OLA manual:

Recommended Amplifier Power:

Advent Loudspeaker 20 watts rms per channel (8 ohms)

A review of the OLA here says "While a good 25-watt-per-channel amplifier should be sufficient, 50 to 75 watts is not excessive." The NLA could handle higher wattage, but I would think 35 would be fine. That same review said "5 watts was enough to rattle windows with this speaker."

http://www.kallhovde.com/advent/speaker-reviews.pdf

Here is a sales brochure for the NLA. It says "The efficiency of the system has been carefully chosen to provide for reproduction of the lowest usable frequencies with amplifiers and receivers of good quality and medium power. While efficiency is lower than that of some comparably-priced speakers of more limited range,and will require a slightly higher setting of a volume control for the same acoustic level, it is no more likely to tax the actual power capabilities of the amplifier or receiver used in a home."

http://www.davidreaton.com/PDFs/New_Advent_Ad.pdf

Kent

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Do you mean did I get the ones with the nice cabinets? If so, yes, and they're in really great condition. I know I overpaid ($375 plus shipping, ouch), especially by the standards of all the folks on this forum who seem able to find them for almost nothing, but I wanted ones that were in really good condition and I expect to use them for a very long time so whats a few bucks over ten years or more? At least that's my rationalization.

Yes--I meant the ones with the nice cabinets. Congratulations! Overpaid? I dunno. Yes--some of our members have found great speakers on the curb, in dumps or in thrift shops, but consider this: According to our Library, the Large Advents cost $580 new in 1969. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $3,640 today. You paid a tenth of that price ;) Besides, what modern speakers could you find that sound and look as good as the NLA? They would cost a lot more than $375! As my tech friend often says, there are 2 ways to figure the value of a vintage item: What would you have to pay for the equivalent today and/or how much pleasure does it bring you. I'd say either way you should have no regrets.

Kent

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I've always felt that 75 to 150W is about right for LAs or NLAs

to do them justice. The amp should handle 4 or even 2 ohm loads

since the woofer is about 6 ohms, and IIRC the system impedance

dips below 3 ohms in the tweeter range. I use a 200W/ch Adcom

amp that will do 325W/ch into 4 ohms and is stable into 2 ohms.

It is a bit much and could damage them but as long as I keep an

eye on the clip indicators and keep the level reasonable they

are fine.

Hope you try the little BSC circuit:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&view=findpost&p=74535

Comments are with BSC:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&view=findpost&p=74537

I have a loaner that just costs a few bucks to ship if you'd like

to try it.

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If the library says Advents, whether singly or per pair, cost $580 in 1969, it's wrong.

The list price of Advents back then was about $120 - $140 apiece depending on whether you got the walnut veneer version or vinyl-clad utility version.

The price didn't really increase much over the production run (1969 - 1977).

BTW, I feel your 35 WPC Kenwood will be fine unless you want to blow your windows out.

As Pete says, ideally, a little more power would be better but 35 watts will get them pretty loud before distortion.

Doug

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If the library says Advents, whether singly or per pair, cost $580 in 1969, it's wrong.

The list price of Advents back then was about $120 - $140 apiece depending on whether you got the walnut veneer version or vinyl-clad utility version.

The price didn't really increase much over the production run (1969 - 1977).

BTW, I feel your 35 WPC Kenwood will be fine unless you want to blow your windows out.

As Pete says, ideally, a little more power would be better but 35 watts will get them pretty loud before distortion.

Doug

In the early '70's, Advents were "fair-traded," which meant that Advent determined the retail selling price through its dealers.

A utility Advent was $102 ea; the walnut veneer version was $116 ea--still less than the 2ax, which was $128 ea 'list,' but of course AR--unlike Advent--was widely discounted at retail. I paid $96 ea for my 2ax's in Feb 1972. A good friend paid the $102 ea. for his utility Advents in Oct 1971.

We both had Dyna SCA-80's (40 WPC), and that was more than enough.

Steve F.

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Trust me, more power is better unless you listen at low levels only.

You also have to consider the current requirements and that most

receivers have current limiting. Bob Cordell's demo, that was not

really loud at HE 2007 hit peaks of 200W into speakers of similar

efficiency as the Advents:

http://www.cordellaudio.com/he2007/

That's me in the front row full right:

http://www.stereophile.com/category/he-2007?page=1

You need more power if you want to completely avoid clipping - we do

tolerate moderate clipping but if you want it perfectly clean go

with more power.

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