Zilch Posted June 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Let's say two violinists are sitting next to each other. The sound of each instrument bounces off the other a few milliseconds after it is launched.Only they can hear it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Ken,There is absolutely NO need to feel that way! That experience was motivation for me to look more closely at the condition of the old tweeters, and to seriously explore alternatives. Further, if you recall, you provided me with a very nice pair of new Vifa tweeters, which were put to excellent use. Your efforts were invaluable, and very appreciated. Thanks again!RoyI think anyone interested in the science behind theseold designs would agree with you Roy. There is verylittle info about the parameters of these drivers whennew and therefore any research done today just addsto the body of knowledge. Thanks to you for loaning them, and to Ken for testing them.If anyone knows the original design Fs, Qt, etc. for these drivers it would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilch Posted June 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Of course, let's say that one really trusts the Stereophile data. This seems to be the case with you, since you have referenced their review of that particular Dunlavy model and used that as a kind of hearsay, secondary-source reference in the place of hard data from your own analyses.I don't give a flying whit about the reviews, only Atkinson's data, and I linked to those pages specifically for the horizontal directivity plots, which clearly show, contrary to your assertions, that the two Dunlavy models for which Stereophile provides data are NOT controlled directivity by ANY stretch, and if that was his mantra, he failed miserably at achieving it. They exhibit the very dispersion widening at crossover you recently decried here.SO, if the specific models you owned and listened to for years were actually "narrow width" constant directivity as you have repeatedly claimed, then you'll have to provide data substantiating that, or the forum can only conclude that you don't know what you're talking about. Having never heard either narrow- OR moderate-width constant directivity loudspeakers in your perfect listening room(s) for comparison to your favored very-wide dispersion setup, everything you have posted in this regard has been little more than speculative blather.... In that case, what must we make of the Villchur LvR demos, where we obviously had plenty of early reflections from the moldings around those AR-3 speakers?I believe the reference is to the front wall reflections, which were damped in the LvR demo in the photo. Also, since the rooms were larger than home listening spaces, the lateral reflections from both the musicians and the speakers on the wall behind them would be delayed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkantor Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Ken,There is absolutely NO need to feel that way! That experience was motivation for me to look more closely at the condition of the old tweeters, and to seriously explore alternatives. Further, if you recall, you provided me with a very nice pair of new Vifa tweeters, which were put to excellent use. Your efforts were invaluable, and very appreciated. Thanks again!RoyRoy,I appreciate your telling me this! I'm not going to feel >good< about dumb mistakes, but I will try to move on to other topics over my next few years of therapy....-k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilch Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 In any case, the Atkinson measurements were non optimal, at least according to Dunlavy, and, believe me, I would take John Dunlavy's word about such things of John Atkinson's any day. The stuff that Dunlavy had sent to me in the past showed the speakers to be directional, with controlled, subdued, and smooth response at wider off-axis angles. Until we see how Atkinson handled speakers YOU like, using his data as a reference standard for performance is pointless. For all we know, your favored models might look terrible with any visual evidence presented by John Atkinson.O.K., DON'T click them, then.http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...ost&p=84404SpitWad here:http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...ost&p=84800AR 303 here:http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeake...5ar/index4.html[i'm about $120 into SpitWad thus far..... ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speaker dave Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Basically, your whole approach to speaker design is to set up some straw-man defects and then come up with solutions to a problem that does not matter.Howard FerstlerHmmm, like nonflat power response and imperfect dispersion?David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkantor Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 I think anyone interested in the science behind theseold designs would agree with you Roy. There is verylittle info about the parameters of these drivers whennew and therefore any research done today just addsto the body of knowledge. Thanks to you for loaning them, and to Ken for testing them.If anyone knows the original design Fs, Qt, etc. for these drivers it would be helpful.Thanks, Pete.Are you talking about the tweeters, or the MR and HR drivers? At one point, I did comprehensive testing on 6 different AR 12" woofers... old, new and re-coned, using Tymphany's facilities. Responses, parameters, Klippel data suites, the works. CSP's Bret Theil and Tom Tyson were instrumental in getting there samples. Responses, parameters, Klippel data suites, the works. All the of the data, and a summary of it were posted on a long-gone website of mine, and might be in a library here. I'm sure my site's contents are archived on some tape backup, but finding that would be daunting. (Finding anything older than about 20 minutes is daunting these days...)In terms of the upper drivers, I did some very rough SPICE models to try and capture just enough info to understand the crossover during the 3a restoration effort. These I can probably actually find!-k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 Thanks, Pete.Are you talking about the tweeters, or the MR and HR drivers? At one point, I did comprehensive testing on 6 different AR 12" woofers... old, new and re-coned, using Tymphany's facilities. Responses, parameters, Klippel data suites, the works. CSP's Bret Theil and Tom Tyson were instrumental in getting there samples. Responses, parameters, Klippel data suites, the works. All the of the data, and a summary of it were posted on a long-gone website of mine, and might be in a library here. I'm sure my site's contents are archived on some tape backup, but finding that would be daunting. (Finding anything older than about 20 minutes is daunting these days...)In terms of the upper drivers, I did some very rough SPICE models to try and capture just enough info to understand the crossover during the 3a restoration effort. These I can probably actually find!-kI do remember the woofer data and I think I have it around here somewhere.Those were ceramic magnet versions I think, and I also have a pair of woofersfrom AR-11s here that I measured - so I think we have a good start for those.I was more interested in the MR and HR drivers. Please don't fuss to findanything.Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkantor Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I do remember the woofer data and I think I have it around here somewhere.Those were ceramic magnet versions I think, and I also have a pair of woofersfrom AR-11s here that I measured - so I think we have a good start for those.I was more interested in the MR and HR drivers. Please don't fuss to findanything.Thanks again!Pete,Here is a link to some 12" data that was very easy to find:http://admin.officedesktop.kkantor.operaun.../12woofevodata/Password is: ar12dataI think the summary spreadsheets in the root directory are the most comprehensible. I'll add the data on the other drivers as it turns up. -k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.