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AR4-xa; what to look for?


VintageMan

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VM,

My own modest involvement in this forum rarely extends beyond the small classic two-way speakers of the 60's and early 70's, so I'll offer just a few simple and obvious thoughts. Kent's note is probably the most important alert - - do try to confirm the originality of all four drivers. The AR-4xa had a few different looks to it - - early versions employed cloth surround woofers while later issues had a foam surround. Woofer magnets may have differed as well, with early slug alnicos as compared to later square magnets. Tweeters were always the wonderful 1-1/4" cone design, but methinks all Euro-versions may have been rear-wired (smart!) as opposed to many U.S.-made 4xa speakers that had front-wired (not-so-smart) tweeters. Nonetheless, as long as you can confirm authenticity of all original AR drivers, in any version, I believe this pair of speaker is very much worth pursuing for ownership. All versions were tested to the same specifications. The crossover is very simple, and early issues had a variable pot while later versions had a three-position switch.

Just one of many threads, but this may be of some help.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7963

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Good luck, and do let us know what turns up. The 4xa is a terrific little speaker but, as it has been stated here many times before, it never really enjoyed much success in sales largely because its reign ran concurrent with the newer two-way models: the AR-6 and AR-7.

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Actually, the 4xa is "newer" than either the 6 or 7. The 6 was intro'd in 70 or 71, while the 7 was, I think, late 72 or early 73. The 4ax was late 73/early 74, but definitely after the 6 and 7.

The 4xa was a great example of what we call "parts bin engineering." You're a manufacturer with a bunch of parts hanging around, Marketing comes to you and sees an opportunity:

"Hey, we have all those 4x cabs. Everyone loved that speaker. We don't have the old 2 1/2" tweeter anymore, but everyone seems to love that new 1 1/4" jobbie-do. Let's put them together in the 4's cabinet, use up the parts and run it up the flagpole."

"What did you say, Sales? Too many 8" 2-ways? Too close in price? Hey, just give 'em a special, run these out the door, and then we'll stop making them. We just want to use up those cabs and turn it into some cash."

Don't overthink this. The 4xa--while a perfectly respectable speaker--was nothing more than a knee-jerk response to an immediate parts inventory situation, not part of some grand marketing plan. I've been on the inside of big U.S. speaker companies for decades. This is what happens.

One other thing, a question: It's been reported that the 4x started out life with a cloth surround woofer and switched over to foam very late in its life. Makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is any 4xa having a cloth surround woofer, since the 6 and 7 preceded it and they were always foam as were the very last 4x's. I don't buy into cloth surround 4xa's. But I've been wrong many times and AR could've discovered a pallet in the warehouse. That happens too.

Steve F.

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Steve is certainly correct about the "parts bin" rationale which basically created the 4xa model, and I believe his range of dates on the various speaker models is also probably accurate. I can personally vouch for AR-6's with dates from early 1971, but I've never witnessed any evidence of the AR-7 having debuted in '72. My comment using the word "newer" was not meant to date each product debut, but rather was intended to lump together this group of the final AR two-ways from the "Classic" era which employed the new 1-1/4" tweeter.

The small two-way 4xa, 6 and 7 all entered the marketplace after 1970, but the larger three-way AR's still being marketed (2ax, 5, 3a) at the same time were all holdovers from the late 60's. Then, of course, there is the AR-8, the fourth model to use this new tweeter, but in a larger cabinet (same as 2ax and 5 models) and with a 10" woofer. Enough already about the AR-8, which I always thought to be the final iteration of the earlier AR-2x (two-way speaker with 10" woofer).

Again, as Steve has already noted, the 4xa was never a "designed" product intended to capture a particular market share. Instead, it was primarily brought to the public as a means to exhaust the ample stock of parts remaining from the fabulously popular AR-4x. In particular, these parts were the 8" cloth woofer and cabinets and the A-P pot control, which also showed up in the early version of the AR-6.

The comment that the later-issue 4x speakers switched to a foam woofer surround really surprises me (post pics to prove, please!), since I have never seen this iteration. But the 4xa with a cloth surround is definitely a sure thing (see pics attached) and it certainly reinforces the idea of "parts bin engineering", or in other words, making use of the substantial surplus that remained from the earlier prodigious AR-4x production. Even the '73 AR lit shows a cloth woofer in the 4xa.

None of my comments are meant to diminish the performance quality of the AR-4xa, which despite its dubious origins, remains a terrific bookshelf speaker. To the OP: while describing them as "rare" may be something of a stretch, the 4xa's are nevertheless not all that common, but they will never fetch the premium market prices of other AR models. Get yourself a pair and report back.

post-112624-0-85540300-1426292880_thumb. post-112624-0-83027100-1426292934_thumb. post-112624-0-99901900-1426292969_thumb. post-112624-0-65718800-1426293103_thumb.

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Just got back from picking up the AR4xa.

Looking at the pictures above I have other tweeters and another baffle.

The sn.'s are: 33253 and 33254.

Searching the Internet I found AR4xa with the same tweeters but an other baffle that had been modified for use with his tweeter.

The housings are without damage other then that they have been painted in a darker color, I think they were blank from origin.

The paint comes of with my nail so I can get them back in their original color without much trouble.

Maybe the color will stay a little darker because the current color is absorbed by the wood.

Both tweeters and woofers work and the cloth is in good condition.

Here some images

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DSC02478.JPG

DSC02479.JPG

DSC02480.JPG

DSC02481.JPG

They sound rather nice for such a small speaker.

I'm very pleased with this find :)

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Those look really great, and yes, all drivers are original. Very nice matching cloth woofers with ribbed cones, and the tweeter looks exactly like the second pic in post 8. I am not absolutely positive, but it seems to me that all of the Euro-produced AR-4xa's, 6's and 7's employed this rear-wired version of the 1-1/4" tweeter. (Edit: also, it seems that consecutive serial nos. show up more frequently with Euro-AR's.)

Even the grille cloth and badges look fantastic, and while it is a little difficult to fully appreciate the cabinet finish from your pics, they look just fine to me. I think the color looks quite good (I happen to like when the walnut has some reddish hue to it), and while my first thought was that the sheen is too glossy, that just might be from camera flash.

Take a peek inside and let us know what you find - - - there's a good chance it may look just like this pic.

post-112624-0-44986900-1426365319_thumb.

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I do like the color, due to moving them around by the previous owner there are a lot of scratches mainly because the paint comes off easily.

When the weather outside turns into more sun and warmth I will remove all of it and redo them.

Looking at the spots where it came off I do not think they were walnut.

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I do like the color, due to moving them around by the previous owner there are a lot of scratches mainly because the paint comes off easily.

When the weather outside turns into more sun and warmth I will remove all of it and redo them.

Looking at the spots where it came off I do not think they were walnut.

Could be African Mahogany

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Foam vs. cloth surround on 4x woofers:

My Dad had 4x's (July 1969, s/n 238k) with cloth surrounds. I'd always thought that the 4x was cloth-only its entire life and the foam 8-inchers began with the 6 and 7. (Yes, the 7 was intro'd at the end of 72, b/c the SR review of the 7 was early 73 and the lag between review and publication was always about 4 mos by cover date. I know this from my 25 years+ at Bose/BA/Atlantic Technology. Also JH did not say in his review of the 7 that they were "pre-pro models, but identical to production units," the way he and SR would say that in those circumstances. So JH reviewed production 7's in very late 1972, near as I can figure.)

However, some well-respected and highly-informed veterans on the CSP site have said on many occasions that the 4x transitioned to foam surrounds at the end of its life. I never saw a 4 with a foam surround, but if others insist it's so, then maybe it is.

And if it is true that late 4x's had foam surrounds, then it stands to reason by all logic that the 4xa would be foam, since if AR had run out of the original cloth 8-incher and was only manufacturing foam 8's by 1970-71, then the 4xa (a 73 intro) would've been foam.

But my statement that late 4x's had transitioned to foam was based purely on the utterances of others. I never saw a foam 4, personally. Never.

And these 4xa pics--both the lit and VM's buy--showing cloth 4xa's gives even more credence to my theory that the 4xa was a "parts bin" special, designed to use up what was on hand--in this case, cabs and surplus cloth 8-inch woofers.

If there were foam 4x's and the 4xa's were cloth, then that means that, yes, AR "dicovered a pallet" of cloth 8-inch woofers and wanted to use them up, figuring they'd trade on the marketplace equity of the "4" model number.

If anyone has ironclad proof of late 4x's using foam woofers, please re-state your case. People who take all this stuff much too seriously--like myself--want to know.

Steve F.

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It may very well be possible that some 4x's did indeed have foam woofers - - I've just never seen it - - and certainly, we've all encountered the oddball pair of vintage AR's that does not seem to comply with the normal formula of parts.

I think the claim that the 4xa was a result of "parts bin engineering" is more than a theory - - it's pretty obvious when you look at the progression of the product line and the specific components that remained consistent or changed. The early use of the A-P potentiometer in the 4ax is further support to this notion. Somewhat parallel thoughts could be applied to the confusing AR-2 series lineage, and like was hinted at in post 8, the doomed AR-8 should have more correctly been tagged as the final member of this earlier vintage family.

To the OP: I am confused by your reference of "paint". Pure speculation here, but perhaps you are suggesting that your speakers have a clear finish that is flaking off? If so, it is possibly a topical application of urethane, and one reason it might be losing adhesion is that it was applied over the original oil finish. With the speckled paint on the backside, the switch control, and your paper labels with multiple addresses, these are clearly 4ax Euro models. Regarding cabinet veneer, while it's not entirely clear where these cabinets were assembled, these do appear to me to be walnut.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've picked up another pair AR4-xa.

They have been painted black by the first owner but according to him they where white when he bought them.

Not painted white but maybe Formica?

The are in 100% working order, just one tweeter has a dented cover (Is this repairable?).

No fronts

Not sure what to do with them, maybe sell as spare parts -_-

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I've picked up another pair AR4-xa.

They have been painted black by the first owner but according to him they where white when he bought them.

Not painted white but maybe Formica?

The are in 100% working order, just one tweeter has a dented cover (Is this repairable?).

No fronts

Not sure what to do with them, maybe sell as spare parts -_-

The AR-4xa's are repairable and worthy of consideration. You can find Kent's technique in the AR-6 unfinished pine thread recently which has the same tweeter. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=8335&p=101775

Just curious if the woofers have cloth or foam surrounds.

Formica was not a standard finish but I vaguely remember mention of a white finish offered in Europe.

Roger

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About the first pair of 4xa's: any further info or observations about the finish that is flaking off and, does the crossover look similar to the one shown in post 10?

About the second pair of 4xa's: it's just my opinion with the limited information, but if they are in 100% working order, I suggest you find a way to restore them into a fully serviceable pair of speakers. I can understand salvaging only parts when that seems to be the only practical option, but that does not sound like the case here. Ne 'vulturize' pas!

Re: cabinets, the original 'white' description indeed sounds very curious, and there were never any Formica finishes (except for Roger's AR-5's, which was an after-market application). Just a wild stab here, but I'd guess that maybe these 4xa speakers were originally a pair of vinyl-covered (faux simulated walnut) cabinets that maybe had first been painted white, and later painted black.

Would appreciate seeing a post with some pics of this second pair for two reasons: 1) to maybe assist you in evaluating the finish options, and 2) I would like to see an image of this cabinet in black with a white linen grille (maybe you can use one from first pair).

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About the first pair of 4xa's: any further info or observations about the finish that is flaking off and, does the crossover look similar to the one shown in post 10?

About the second pair of 4xa's: it's just my opinion with the limited information, but if they are in 100% working order, I suggest you find a way to restore them into a fully serviceable pair of speakers. I can understand salvaging only parts when that seems to be the only practical option, but that does not sound like the case here. Ne 'vulturize' pas!

Re: cabinets, the original 'white' description indeed sounds very curious, and there were never any Formica finishes (except for Roger's AR-5's, which was an after-market application). Just a wild stab here, but I'd guess that maybe these 4xa speakers were originally a pair of vinyl-covered (faux simulated walnut) cabinets that maybe had first been painted white, and later painted black.

Would appreciate seeing a post with some pics of this second pair for two reasons: 1) to maybe assist you in evaluating the finish options, and 2) I would like to see an image of this cabinet in black with a white linen grille (maybe you can use one from first pair).

The first pair of AR4xa's are as they where when I bought them.

As soon as the weather changes I will take them outside to open them up and start peeling of the paint.

For the second pair: I'm not sure if I can get the black paint off. It looks like real quality paint the owner used and I'm not sure if stripper-fluid will only take the paint of or also damage the enclosures.

This will have to also wait for better weather, so I can work on 2 pairs.

I will make some photo's this weekend, also some with the fronts from pair 1.

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I was just curious if you had any better idea yet about the flaking finish on pair #1 that you refer to as 'paint' - - - I totally understand waiting for acceptable weather so you can do chemical and/or sanding work outdoors - - - will look forward to your updates.

With your pair #2, I'll be curious to see what might have been the original finish on the cabinets, but also suggest that maybe a new black finish (with white linen grilles) just might a very good option, as seen in these pics.

post-112624-0-49445400-1428093062_thumb. post-112624-0-61907400-1428094196_thumb. post-112624-0-62869200-1428094239_thumb.

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Today I took some pictures of the "black" pair AR4xa with one of the fronts of the first pair.

I also checked for the white paint and they where indeed white from origin (see last image).

It is not bright white but more "broken" white.

It was not Formica as far as I can see, but removing the black paint will give final conclusion.

This will have to wait until the weather gets better.

DSC02485.JPG

DSC02486.JPG

DSC02487.JPG

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Thanks for posting the latest pics - - that is pretty much what I wanted to see. Looks like the woofers have '73 date stamps and the tweeters from '74, so everything appears original and hopefully in good working order. Since you are located in Europe, I was mildly surprised to see two things: the cloth woofer surrounds (not all that rare, though) and the front-wired tweeters, which seem to be somewhat less common than the rear-wired version (my personal preference) in Euro models.

The oval-shaped tweeter connector is rather difficult to remove - - it usually has about 1000 staples, and maybe glue as well, holding it in place. Even if you want to clean up the baffle board with the drivers removed, there should be no need to remove this tweeter terminal - - you can simply sand-scrape-strip around and over it. You will, of course, want to ensure that you have clean metal when it comes time to re-solder those delicate tweeter wires.

The crossovers are also all original, but again, I see no reason to remove the hardboard panel. The switch, resistors, and coil should require no attention at all. The capacitor is the only component that you might wish to replace, and even that may still be close to its original 10 uF value - - the only way to know is disconnect from the circuit and measure.

Not sure about the woofers, but I have a pair of similar front-wired tweeters from early AR-6's and my notes indicate that they measured at 4.9 and 5.7 ohms. However, it almost appears that yours have the larger magnets. The tweets I mentioned have 2-1/8" diameter (5.4 cm) magnets, but many versions of this popular tweeter design had larger 2-3/8" (6.0 cm) diameter magnets.

It does not appear that the cabinets were painted with great care or skill, and the pics do not clearly determine if the original cabs are real wood veneer or vinyl, but it will be interesting to see your later discoveries. Nonetheless, your first pic with the linen grille tells me what I wanted to know - - - if other, or more desirable (?) finish options do not work out for you, a well-prepped cabinet with a fresh finish of matte or satin black paint could look very good, in my opinion.

Thanks again for the update.

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I measured the woofers today, both around 5.5 Ohm.

Both the tweeters are around 3.8 Ohm.

I'm not going to restore the cabinets. Using stripper-fluid made not only the black paint come off but also the white.

As I have no use or need for them I will put them on a Dutch action site and see if someone wants them for free, if not I will take the filter parts out as well.

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