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Two louder? I had no idea that two louder even existed! :blink: While this benchmark dial setting of "12" is indeed groundbreaking news, I am still buckled over in stitches thinking about Spinal Tap and its supreme drollness as the ultimate mockumentary feature film.

While I know little about BA product model history, and perhaps even less about sub-sat pairings, I do have enough high respect for the BA company (they call it "branding" these days) that I jumped on these leftover components at a recent flea market. I do, however, Steve F, know all about those situations in the workplace where one does most of the work and receives little of the credit; and your little tale about the BA owner and the static between AR and Advent devotees is almost palpable.

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I feel like a card shark revealing his tricks. In a way, I hate to tell you this, because it's apparent that it had its intended effect.

But there's no such thing as a "Boston" capacitor, any more than there are AR caps or Revel caps or B&W caps.

The speaker company will ask the cap vendor, "How much to silk-screen our logo onto the caps?"

"3 cents per cap, plus a one-time $200 print die set-up fee."

"OK, good, do it."

I did this at pretty much every company I was with. It was especially effective with in-wall/in-ceiling speakers, where the crossovers are exposed.

We knew that reviewers would disassemble the enclosed box speakers and look at the crossovers, so we wanted to make sure they saw "branded, custom" caps.

Yeah, right.

Steve F.

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Say it ain't so, Steve! No teflon to make the electrons flow more easily or special hand soldered leads using exotic solder? They must have "sounded" like crap. :rolleyes:

I just randomly Googled an idiot's review of very overpriced capacitors. I could hear Spinal Tap's Nigel's voice as I read it.

"One I would call "electrostat flavor" and the other "cone flavor" because the former group reminds me of a great electrostat speaker while the latter reminds me of a great dynamic cone speaker."

...and they go to "12". :lol:

Roy

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Say it ain't so, Steve! No teflon to make the electrons flow more easily or special hand soldered leads using exotic solder? They must have "sounded" like crap. :rolleyes:

I just randomly Googled an idiot's review of very overpriced capacitors. I could hear Spinal Tap's Nigel's voice as I read it.

"One I would call "electrostat flavor" and the other "cone flavor" because the former group reminds me of a great electrostat speaker while the latter reminds me of a great dynamic cone speaker."

...and they go to "12". :lol:

Oh, definitely--the branded caps sounded oh-so-much better than those off-the shelf jobbie-dos. Once we stamped "Boston" (or company-du-jour) on them, their acoustic properties improved dramatically.

You paid a print setup fee and 3 cents a cap? Were you buying them by the dozen or something?

Ya know, as much as we like to think how important we are and how big we are, the speaker end of the consumer electronics biz is barely a ripple on the pond, barely a drop in the bucket (feel free to insert your cliché of choice here, meaning really small and insignificant). In the mid-late '90's, BA was in the top 5 or 6 speaker companies in the US market. Bose, Harmon (JBL/Infinity), Klipsch, maybe Polk, BA. BA's sales at that time were around $35-40 mil. Then there were the next 350 brands (no kidding!) of speakers in the US, with sales ranging from a few $100 thousand to about 25-30 mil.

We (the speaker companies) were all small potatoes compared to the Japanese electronics giants like Sony, Panasonic, etc. How many caps do you think Pana ($4 bil in US sales) used for their entire range of electronics products vs. the teeny-weeny amount that BA used for its speakers?

3 cents a cap? 3 or 4 caps per x-o times 100,000 units sold per year? That's only $12,000 for very, very good marketing mileage. A full-page ad in one issue of Stereo Review in 1998 cost $15,000, so the caps thing was a good buy.

I'm sure that Pana got the caps vendor to do it for free, considering how many they bought. But the TV or computer or cordless phone or microwave oven market in 1998 was several orders of magnitude bigger than hi fi speakers (and Pana made all those things--and more). We gladly paid the 12 grand.

Steve F.

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"......or maybe something with a bit more wah-wah in the dielectric layer."

My only point about the caps is that if they were good enough for BA to slap their italicized logo on them, they are probably good enough for my simple hobby needs. (BTW, they do measure spot-on.) Plus, since they really didn't cost me that much more than 3 cents per cap as NOS, I am satisfied knowing that while I may have paid a premium for the snazzy yellow label, I am getting the working part of the cap for free! ^_^

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"......or maybe something with a bit more wah-wah in the dielectric layer."

My only point about the caps is that if they were good enough for BA to slap their italicized logo on them, they are probably good enough for my simple hobby needs. (BTW, they do measure spot-on.) Plus, since they really didn't cost me that much more than 3 cents per cap as NOS, I am satisfied knowing that while I may have paid a premium for the snazzy yellow label, I am getting the working part of the cap for free! ^_^

Actually I am always encouraged when I find those yellow mylar caps instead of inexpensive electrolytics. I have re-used many of them as well!

Boston Acoustics stands out as having been a class act, imo. To know one of our own played an important role makes it even better.

Roy

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Total agreement on all points. As has been previously stated, my knowledge with the BA history and product lines is rather limited, but the fervent following for this company's products is well documented. New England was so awash with incestuous and excellent speaker manufacturers for fully over three decades that there must be legions of fascinating tales to tell. :wacko:

And yep, despite many of them being kept under shrouded veils, I am normally delighted, appreciative, and still mostly curious to learn about the backgrounds of the many excellent posters who make this forum special.

Nonetheless, I do still get great enjoyment from the occasional intriguing "find" amidst the flotsam and jetsam that constitutes the majority of most garage sales, flea markets, etc ....... and that includes shelling out only a few bucks for a handful of very useable "pre-owned" or NOS capacitors, such as this group of mongrels.

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You are both far too kind, and I thank you for your comments.

My 11 years at BA were indeed fascinating. At times, it was like "living the dream." The VP Eng used to be at AR, during the ADD period and the transition from Cambridge-built drivers to Tonegen-built drivers. The President of BA was previously at KLH with Henry, then went to Advent with Henry and he had, of course, a ring-side seat to everything that took place in the Classic era.

I could write a book. Maybe I will--sort of a "companion" piece to Tom T's History of AR (which we all hope he'll finally write!)

I was high up enough at BA that in 1997, I actually interviewed AR's former VP of Eng from the mid '80's for a head of Home Audio Eng post at BA. (I'd rather not identify him.) He ended up not coming onboard.

From reading Stereo Review and discussing the 4x and 3a with my Dad and my friends in the late '60's-early '70s, to writing letters to Roy A and others in the '70's (see in the Library 'Steve F's letters to AR'), to working at BA and interviewing a former AR VP to see if we wanted him to join us: For me, it was like a kid loving the Red Sox and growing up to play in the Majors at Fenway Park.

One correction:

Boston Acoustics stands out as having been a class act, imo. To know one of our own played an important role makes it even better.

It's two of our own, not one. CSP contributor Gerry S was an outstanding system engineer at BA for about a decade from the late '80's to the late 90's or so. His designs and voicings sold in huge numbers and he was responsible for several terrific products when he was there. His inventive creativity defined the feeling of spirit and initiative of what it was like to work at BA.

Steve F.

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"3 cents per cap, plus a one-time $200 print die set-up fee."

In audio it seems to be like that. When one says, you should spend 50% to speakers in your audio system most peoples do so. When one guy from Scotland says that the source is most important, good turntables will flourish. When cables and caps are hot, recapping and rewiring amplifier will double or triple cost of amp.Very few seems to realize that good audio system is good compromise.

Robert F Woods, who imported AR and BA Speakers to Finland from 70´s to 80`s asked very good question at our Sound Club meeting few years ago. He found it odd how mediocre car audio systems usually are. Then he pointed out that when engineer is supposed to design OEM car audio system, he will know exactly where this system is played. No other audio engineer does have any chances to know anything about acoustical environment where this system will be used. Amplifier designer does not have any idea about sources, speakers, stands, cables to be used... and so on.

Failures can start also from showroom. I do remember that we did not like too much floor standing Boston A200 and A400 models but A40 and A70 models sounded better than previous AR ADD models. Now I understand that smaller models were demoed backs against wall and there was not enough solid back wall available for floor standers, therefore they were sounding thin. I do not know if someone figured that expensive floor standers will not bee too successful anyway, but comparison to misplaced floor standers might boost A40 and A70 sales considerably.

Best Regards

Kimmo

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....

I could write a book. Maybe I will--sort of a "companion" piece to Tom T's History of AR (which we all hope he'll finally write!)...

Steve, get together with Tom and contact one of the area university presses (assuming there are any left) and tell them the scope of your project. Maybe they have a grad student that will write the book for his/her thesis. You guys are probably getting old and lazy and will never get up the energy otherwise. Seems like a book just on AR would have a very limited appeal, in my mind anyway.

Just an idea.

Roger

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Ken Kessler might also be interested in writing book about History of AR. His co-authored 50 Years Of Innovation In Sound is very nice and informative book. It has been targeted to relatively small group of Kef enthusiasts. Book has been published by GP, current owner of Kef.

Best Regards

Kimmo

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I have now removed drive units from cabs without too much trouble. Woofer and mid range backsides were coated with some white colored deposits, that you can see from the first picture. I suppose that this is some kind of oxidation. As I have not seen this kind of residue before, any ideas why this has been happened and what can be done to avoid this happening again would be appreciated.

Crossover can not be described to have tidy layout. From pics you may note attention paid to fine detail, stuffing material has been used as insulation to avoid rattles and shorts between coil wires. Bracing can not be considered too effective. Side and back panel braces are not glued to each other to reinforce back panel seam and hard wood was not used for bracing. I coated all internal seams with PVA-glue to be sure that cab will be airtight when finished.

Crushed corner and cracked front panel moldings needed some work before I was able to clean the cabs properly. I wet sanded the cabs with 400 grit paper to remove dirt and some of the BLO used in the past. It seems that there was quite thick layer of BLO on the cabs. Sanding was followed by rub with with steel wool and BLO. After this I wiped BLO and some more patina from the cabs with cotton cloth. Cabs are not finished yet and do have some patina, but look fairly clean to me.

Best Regards

Kimmo

Good looking cabs Kimmo, for sure. I love teak and have some teak mid century modern pieces of teak.

It would be great to know what AR did originally to finish these. Teak really only needed an actual teak oil application. They may have found need to add a UV protectant or something over it. It can be difficult to find legitimate good teak oil but it should be easier where you are. Good for you for having the bravery to sand those down. The BLO also does not protect against UV so be careful with that.

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  • 4 weeks later...

What era HK speaker? There is no reason to believe the driver baskets or speaker cabinets are full of cadmium based on one experience. Still it is good to know it may be around.

Cadmium residue is well known to be associated with old electronic equipment, but I agree with Roger. Standards of this type are based on occupational exposure, and significant absorbtion through the skin is a bit of a stretch, especially in the world of a speaker hobbyist.

Roy

It was a late 60's early 70's Harman Kardon. I THINK it was a HK 40 speaker, but may have been a HK 20. Some of you experts out there can probably tell us the years those were in production. It wasn't on the basket, but it was on the tone control pot inside the speaker cabinet. The pot was plastered with the stuff.

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