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AR 3a '91 replica


Sonnar

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I spent my afternoon refoaming my AR 3a replica' s woofers. I' ve heard drivers are made by Tonegen , but the woofer is marked with the modern AR logo. Unlike the original, internal wiring is made with large, excellent copper wire, and the internal is filled with white plastic material ( fiberglass? ). The heavy furniture is identical to the original, with strong internal rigid reinforcement. My Soundcraftsmen power amp has A/B speakers switch, so I 've had an instant confrontation between original AR 3 and the 3a replica: these ones sounds slightly better. The evidence is in a clean, powerful, dynamic mid-range, while the AR 3 is a bit " cold " and dry, a little reluctant . Obviously, highs are more evident in AR 3, because of its controlled, " shy " midrange. In every way, both excellent speakers. post-116698-0-94955600-1405117709_thumb.post-116698-0-46816400-1405117768_thumb.post-116698-0-51291500-1405117847_thumb.post-116698-0-50212600-1405117930_thumb.

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Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

The white stuffing is most likely poly fiber.

The AR on the magnet doesn't mean the speaker wasn't made by Tonegen. Most AR speakers I've seen have the AR and driver part number stamped on the magnet.

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I spent my afternoon refoaming my AR 3a replica' s woofers. I' ve heard drivers are made by Tonegen , but the woofer is marked with the modern AR logo.

Tonegen drivers made for AR had the AR logo on them. "TN" is found in the serial number and the magnet is gold colored. Your woofers are definitely the most common Tonegen replacement of the 80's and early 90's.

The mids are probably Tonegen as well, but the tweeters are not Tonegen, nor from 1991. They are original AR-11/10pi tweeters from the late 70's. The cabinets appear to be from the mid 70's, and are filled with polyester material, which was used from the late 70's onward (but never in the original 3a). The grille cloth also appears to be original to the 70's.

Have you posted photos of the crossovers in the past? If not, it would be interesting to see them.

Roy

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Tweeters domes are made with paper, just like originals. Unfortunately I don' t have original AR 3a, but I remember the pair my father had in 1968/1974 period, then he switched for a pair of AR 10 pi, the first series with the golden logo: tweeters are white soft domes , perhaps fabric but surely not paper. Next time I' ll post some pics of 3a replica's crossover, probably with some differences fron the original: the replica doesn' t have the classic expensive pots, but cheaper L-Pads.

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Interesting...what is the suspension around the tweeter domes made of? A close-up photo would be great. Whatever the case may be, they were not factory manufactured in 1991.

I'm betting the crossover board is the one found in the AR-3a Limited. 3a Limited parts became generally available in the 90's when AR was cashing in the chips. I used them in several AR-3a projects using original AR-3a cabinets.

Roy

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Tomorrow I 'll post some close ups of the tweeter, which is very close to the original . In my memories, original AR 3a sounds very similar to the replica, this one is maybe a bit cleaner. Steve, the next time will be very interesting your opinion about the replicas, you have a pair of original 3a .

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Roy, forgive me for a little OT: I have a pair of old AR 2, an excellent Alnico woofer , fast and clean, but a very poor mid-high response by the two cones combo. So I tried with EPI inverted domes , using a simple 10 mf cap , crossing at about 1.8 Khz. Good, but in my opinion this woofer is unable to rise so high. So I am planning to use it in a three-way speaker. I have a couple of Kef B110 and a pair of T27, excellent loudspeakers used in the late sixties Kef Concerto. According to Kef specifications, sensitivity is about 86 db , well matched with the 10" AR woofer. What do You think about it?

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Roy, forgive me for a little OT: I have a pair of old AR 2, an excellent Alnico woofer , fast and clean, but a very poor mid-high response by the two cones combo. So I tried with EPI inverted domes , using a simple 10 mf cap , crossing at about 1.8 Khz. Good, but in my opinion this woofer is unable to rise so high. So I am planning to use it in a three-way speaker. I have a couple of Kef B110 and a pair of T27, excellent loudspeakers used in the late sixties Kef Concerto. According to Kef specifications, sensitivity is about 86 db , well matched with the 10" AR woofer. What do You think about it?

Adriano,

There are very good reasons why the AR-2a was a significant improvement over the AR-2. To improve the 2 it is best to bring it as close to the 2a design as possible. This will require not only the addition of tweeters, but modification of the crossovers. You won't be able to adequately fix the problem without getting into the cabinets. Any of the tweeters you mentioned will work with the proper crossover changes, and the additon of level controls for the new tweeters.

Since this is off topic and more of a modfication discussion, we should take it elsewhere. Feel free to send me a personal message for more information.

Roy

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The back terminal panel shows it is indeed the AR-3a Limited crossover. The components are mounted on a printed circuit board, and have somewhat different values than the original AR-3a....most likely to compensate for the different tweeter and the use of 8 ohm L-pads.

It appears someone transplanted an AR-3a type paper dome into an AR-11 tweeter body. You can see cloth around the perimeter, yet the replacement dome's suspension is some kind of adhesive, unlike that of the AR-11's cloth dome/suspension.

The label indicates the speaker cabinet was made in the US, yet the serial number indicates it was not intended for sale in the US. The type of label, grille cloth, and walnut veneer are the same found on early 70's cabinets. The front baffle appears to be painted plywood rather than later mdf.

My guess is your 3a's are a well executed project by an individual who used parts from different eras.

It would be interesting to compare the performance of the unusual hybrid tweeters to original AR-3a and AR-11 tweeters. The overall performance of your speakers is very likely to be closer to the AR-3a Limited than any other iteration of the 3a.

Roy

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I think You 're right, I 've read the 3D posted by luigifedele, it' s the same AR 3a Replica , probably assembled in Italy with original AR cabinets and parts and Tonegen and original drivers. However, my 3a Replicas came in original package boxes with the old AR logo , with the freight form ( waybill ) marked Logan International Airport, Boston. Yes, the front baffle is made by plywood, black painted, not MDF as classic AR 3a ; but also my two pairs of AR 3 have front and back baffles in plywood.

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My point about the plywood baffles was that it dates the cabinets to the 70's, not the 90's. The last AR-3a cabinets manufactured around 1974 or 1975 were all mdf. The early cabinets were all plywood, and then a combination of both materials.

The AR boxes could very well be original to the cabinets, and are consistent with the cabinet labels showing that some version of these speakers was manufactured in the US....just not in 1991. At some point along the way someone "restored" them with later parts.

Roy

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I agree, I remember the first pair of AR 3a my father had in 1968, with the AR 3 Alnico woofer , and the second pair in 1972 with the classic AR ceramic magnet woofer, all of them had plywood front baffle and large thick frame, made in USA; a friend of mine had a pair in 1975, european version with thin frame , all MDF, made in Holland ( Amersfoort ).

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Adriano,

your speakers are some of the AR 3a Replicas made in Italy. For a short period, Tonegen made a paper dome tweeter with a fabric suspension as an AR 3a/LST replacement and some of the AR 3a Replicas used it. It was an AR 11/10 pi replacement tweeter with a paper dome instead of a fabric dome. This tweeter was also used by Mark Levinson in some Cello Amati.  Be very carefull because the paper dome of this Tonegen tweeter is very fragile (it was much lighter than the original AR 3a tweeter). See last pictures in " AR-3a Reissue and AR 10 PI Reissue " .

Saluti

Luigi

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Adriano,

your speakers are some of the AR 3a Replicas made in Italy. For a short period, Tonegen made a paper dome tweeter with a fabric suspension as an AR 3a/LST replacement and some of the AR 3a Replicas used it. It was an AR 11/10 pi replacement tweeter with a paper dome instead of a fabric dome. Be very carefull because the paper dome of Tonegen tweeter is very fragile (it was much lighter than the original one).

Saluti

Luigi

Hi Luigi,

The tweeters do not appear to have a cloth suspension. It seems to be some kind of adhesive suspension, and nothing about them appears to be Tonegen. The mounting flange is very thin, which is one reason I was convinced they are from the 70's, and later modified.

The cabinets have the old style label on them and say they were made in the US, yet have non-US serial numbers. Do you have more information about Italian-assembled AR-3a's? Where did you acquire the information? When would this have taken place? Interesting...

Roy

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Since late sixties AR was a leader of the market in Italy , a lot of these speakers were sold here for almost fifteen years, and still have high ratings in audiophile' s opinion. Probably someone in the early '90 made this Replica thinking there was a market for it. I' m very happy with my replicas and my original AR 3, I have Altec Valencias just for fun but I use it as stands for AR speakers, and I don' t like modern european speakers, cold , too sparkling and without real low frequencies, and I don' t like modern reflex design with a lot of little woofers. AR 3/3a are very close to real music and acoustic instruments , strings are absolutely real. It' s the only speaker I can hear for over six hours without annoyance.

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