AR LST speakers

[Guest soundminded_]

For me, Ken is dead. For all others, he lives on. (Well, I do dream about him a lot, I admit.)

soundminded

[soundminded]

Well now this is interesting, someone else is able to post under my moniker. Looks like this site has a hacker. And you can see something is very wrong because the hacker has 1 posting and has become a member...just five minutes ago...

[Guest soundminded_]

I also noticed that someone posted a "fake" Doctor_Philharmonic earlier in this thread, just about the time I was last online. What a coincidence!

soundminded

[Pete B]

Hi Vern,

I don't want anyone to leave, and really I like the other place for amplifier discussions since the speaker section is not so well focused. But it is an alternative, better than loosing people completely.

Nice to hear from you Vern!

[soundminded]

Troll Alert

Username soundminded_

Name Johannes Desilentio

[Pete B]

As long as he enjoys it that's fine, I do get some serious laughs

out of it, better than Seinfeld! ...

Pass the popcorn please!

One minute it's please design us a new tweeter, the next ...

[dynaco_dan]

Hi soundminded;

Thank you for pointing that out, I just went back to see.

I would never have noticed that very slight difference in your name.

Obviously everyone has to be real careful now if a name can be mis-read by such an extremely small detail.

Maybe that newer, "soundminded_", might start praising you or Ken. lol

[soundminded]

It was rather startling to see a posting of something with my name on it that I hadn't posted. It took a few minutes for me to catch the slight difference. You can see how clever he was. Although he has a _ after my moniker in the software formatted ID, it doesn't appear where he signed my moniker at the end of his message. He's probably the kind of person who might commit identity theft or hack people's computers. I've aleady reported it to the moderator. He probably didn't use his real name when he registered either. It doesn't matter, he could be traced through his ISP if anyone had a desire to.

[draftingmonkey]

>I am new here so please excuse this post if topic was covered

>before but I just bought two AR LST speakers from a flea

>market seem intact one woofer needs new foam but or complete

>the pots are frozen but other than that seem in good condition

>. I was thinking about refoaming them or trying to find proper

>replacement parts I am new to this and am looking for any

>suggestions on what I should do . My plans when i first got

>them was to modernize them but after reading up on them I

>think they should be kept original cabinents or in very good

>shape and speaker grilles in great shape except one frame is

>cracked but cloth undamaged , any suggestions would we of

>great help.

Seems as if the original post has been forgotten. Read thru all 82 (before mine) posts and can only find 2 that address the question that I can remember by the time I got to the end. So in reply to the ORIGINAL post, if possible I try to keep my vintage speakers as close to original as possible. That is MY personal preference. Refoam where needed, mend the broken grill frame if possible, recap if necessary, clean the pots if you can (plenty of info in the forum about pot cleaning), if not replace and then sit back and enjoy the music.

[Guest Doctor_Philharmonic]

Okay, look, here's how it is you fluffy-minded imbeciles, I may have implied suicide, even suggested death, but moments after Ken declared his last wish, his desire to blow only his own trumpet (see post #63), and his ticker finally gave out, Nurse Spiel had the most bizarre idea (especially considering she is but a common lay-person, a mere amateur in such matters). She said "I know, lets connect up these (Ken Kantor designed, naturally) woofers that are lying about, feed them a low-frequency-new-best-selling-music signal and place them solidly on his head and chest and gently on his nether regions" I thought it wise not to deny her this outer-limit moment of delusional pleasure, given the appalling gravity of the situation, as Glocken has a mighty fiery temper when she doesn't get her own way.

To my utter astonishment his soft doe like eyes flickered open, and his barely audible whisper was heard to (m)utter "where's...... where's my.... w h e r e's my trumpet, I, I, I-m u s t-b l o w-m y-t r u u u u m p e t........". Praise the Lord! These woofers do indeed work miracles! Within a matter of hours, he was back to his usual giggly self. Needless to say I have since revised my opinion on the source of innovative and/or accepted wisdom being strictly the prerogative of pros. Such narrow minded thinking would have denied the brilliance of, let me think now, say - the eminent amateur [a href = "http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1993741,00.html"] Thomas Young [/a] .

The most important thing is that Ken will now be able to accept the Nobel Prize in Speakerology, in person and not as a stiff, as is befitting of one so great.

Groove On Brothers!

"Don't Enjoy The non-Popular Music!"

Dr. Philharmonic

[Guest Doctor Philharmonic]

You will also notice that there are two "Doctor Philharmonic" posters.

The troll is Doctor_Philharmonic, with the cleverly hidden underscore. You can tell the difference by the quality of the writing. The good part is that everybody loves Ken. What a man! What a demi-God!

With the permission of the System Administrator, I will post here some nude and sexually suggestive pictures of Ken that I took during an attempt at regressive-possessive displacement therapy. (Obviously, before that practice was banned in California.)

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there;

I was laughing at these last few posts.

Are you related to our main man, Frank?

Are you Frank in disguise?

He has the most creative sense of humour on this site.

James has given very good advice, just to stay on the original topic.

[Guest Doctor Philharmonic]

Hey Soundminded,

Are you related to the guy who has posted the same boring message over and over again, for years, on Audio Xpress and AudioKarma? That guy calls himself, "Soundmind." He babbles incessantly about how stupid all other speaker designers are. How imaging is pointless. How his own speakers are the only ones that sound like real instruments. He's a bona fide internet nutcase. Strangely, he often jumps in on threads involving NHT and Kantor.

Nah, that wouldn't be you.

Dr. Philharmonic

"Music is like food. If it isn't dead, don't listen to it."

[Guest GlockenSpiel]

Shame on you Mr Doctor Philharmonic, you are not my Doctor_Philharmonic, he would never pour forth such humourless invective, such blatant baiting. And leave soundminded alone, he has not cloned you, your deduction is wrong. Reach for your medicine cabinet, take a chill pill, or better still, listen to some peaceful music and reflect upon these words:

In nature there's no blemish but the mind;

None can be call'd deform'd but the unkind

Twelfth Night III, iv, 379-380

Nurse Spiel

[Guest Doctor Philharmonic]

>Shame on you Mr Doctor Philharmonic, you are not my

>Doctor_Philharmonic, he would never pour forth such humourless

>invective, such blatant baiting. And leave soundminded alone,

>he has not cloned you, your deduction is wrong. Reach for your

>medicine cabinet, take a chill pill, or better still, listen

>to some peaceful music and reflect upon these words:

>

>In nature there's no blemish but the mind;

>None can be call'd deform'd but the unkind

>

>Twelfth Night III, iv, 379-380

>

>Nurse Spiel

OK. You are right.

What are you doing after work?

Dr. Philharmonic

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take

[joelongwood]

Moderator......PLEASE close this thread, as it's fairly obvious it has degenerated into personal attacks and useless information, with many futile and juvenile attempts at clever sarcasm. This type of behavior (IMHO) is not warranted on this site, which is usually civil and very informative. As James (draftingmonkey) correctly pointed out, only a few people have actually attempted to answer the original poster's question regarding his LST's. BTW......the original poster has not been heard from since his first post......is it any wonder?

[soundminded]

>Hey Soundminded,

>

>Are you related to the guy who has posted the same boring

>message over and over again, for years, on Audio Xpress and

>AudioKarma? That guy calls himself, "Soundmind."

>He babbles incessantly about how stupid all other speaker

>designers are. How imaging is pointless. How his own

>speakers are the only ones that sound like real instruments.

>He's a bona fide internet nutcase. Strangely, he often jumps

>in on threads involving NHT and Kantor.

>

>Nah, that wouldn't be you.

>

>Dr. Philharmonic

>

>"Music is like food. If it isn't dead, don't listen to

>it."

>

>

>

Sorry to disappoint you. I have never posted on Audo Xpress, in fact I've never even visited that site. I haven't posted on audio Kharma for many years and never about speaker imaging. Anyone who has read my posts here knows my views about speakers. My reference is live musical insturments I have in my own home and live concerts I've attended as best as I can remember them. I've tried to understand why speakers don't sound like them to me and I've tried to modify a number of different pairs to make them sound like real instruments and not coincidently like each other. I've designed different kinds of sound systems which are intended to recreate a live experience by reproducing concert hall acoustics by synthesizing them electroacoustically. Since nobody can hear the other guy's equipment on the internet, nobody knows if they'd agree or disagree with anyone elses' claimed success so making those claims is for the most part pointless. As for imaging, I have never seen what possible difference it could make if the trombone player sits 8 feet to the left of the tuba player or 5 feet to the left of him or nine feet to the right of him or two feet in front of him or two feet in back of him. OTOH, I if recordings of trombones don't sound like real trombones and if recordings of tubas don't sound like real tubas, that's not high fidelity in my book. But to others, whatever floats your boat.

[Guest Doctor Philharmonic]

My mistake. I meant to say AudioKarma and Audio -Asylum-. That must have been a Freudian Slip on my part. (Too much time at the hospital this week, you know?)

I was sitting in the 8th or 9th row of a solo guitar performance of Segovia a few years ago. Very moving; it was one of his last. It was easy to hear independently, the sounds made by each hand. Thus, I could hear sublte tempos in the counterpoint in a way that would be blurred or inaudible if their locational images overlapped, without the benefit of spatial unmasking in playback.

In other words, localization is not just about hearing spatial features in the sound. It is also important in that it permits the two ears to function as an array, which gives up to 6 dB additional hearing acuity for softer sounds in the presence of loud ones.

(If you ponder it, you might also come to realize that this explains why dichotic-monophonic sounds [ie- two-speaker mono] does not sound identical to a mono speaker.)

Doctor Philharmonic

"Who let him out of his cage, John?"

Here's one of the nicer posts from AudioKarma:

Re: My favorite was the 3a - Soundmind 18:50:41 02/04/05 (5)

With careful location within my room, additional tweeters, and equalization based on years of tweaking and a lifetime of critical listening, my AR9s sound superb to me. If it's on the disc, I will hear it...or feel it. Even with a 60 wpc (very fine) amplifier, deep bass is a seismic event. Highs soar and sparkle. Predominantly midrange sounds like human voices seem like they are right in front of me. Musical instruments on most recordings sound exactly like they should and I've certainly heard enough of them in my life to know what they sound like. The uniquely peculair sound of my recently acquired Steinway M piano and the one recording I found that reminded me so strongly of it sound virtually identical, one at one end of the room, the other coming from the other end. And every instrument including cellos and double basses are right there. Rostropovich playing the Dvorak Cello Concerto on DG, one of my very favorite recordings could hardly be more beautiful had he come for dinner and given me a private concert between Cognacs. Sorry if yours disappoints. I'm sure there is a waiting market which would pay handsomely for it no matter what condition it's in if you still have them.

[soundminded]

>My mistake. I meant to say AudioKarma and Audio -Asylum-.

>That must have been a Freudian Slip on my part. (Too much

>time at the hospital this week, you know?)

>

>I was sitting in the 8th or 9th row of a solo guitar

>performance of Segovia a few years ago. Very moving; it was

>one of his last.

It must have been, he died in 1987. I heard him live at Carnegie Hall in the late 1960s. As was typical at his concerts, the house was packed, must have been over 2000 people there. He was the most famous guitar player in the world. I had a good seat, around row L or M in the center. (K is reserved for professional critics.) I was proably around 35 to 45 feet away. I figure this allows around 2 1/2 feet per row, 8 to 10 feet for the apron at the front of the stage, and 5 to 10 feet for the aisle in front of the front row. If you heard him in a concert hall you were probably about 10 or 15 feet closer than I was.

>It was easy to hear independently, the

>sounds made by each hand. Thus, I could hear sublte tempos in

>the counterpoint in a way that would be blurred or inaudible

>if their locational images overlapped, without the benefit of

>spatial unmasking in playback.

I have to admit I really don't know what you are talking about. A guitar is played by pressing the fingers of the left hand against the strings holding them to the frets on the fingerboard and plucking or strumming the strings with the right hand. The sound comes from the vibrating strings themselves, from the resonant cavity of the box as sound emerges through the hole below the strings and directly from vibrations of the box itself. Any spurious sound due to the left hand such as by the fingers sliding along the strings or accidently plucking them will still come from the same sources. How do you account for a difference in the perceived location of the source of sound between what the left and right hand were doing and what was the left hand doing which made sound anyway. BTW, even at 25 feet, the distance between them, usually about a foot or so is only a few degrees. If you can make that distinction in source localization you have much better hearing than I probably have.

>

>In other words, localization is not just about hearing spatial

>features in the sound. It is also important in that it

>permits the two ears to function as an array, which gives up

>to 6 dB additional hearing acuity for softer sounds in the

>presence of loud ones.

>

>(If you ponder it, you might also come to realize that this

>explains why dichotic-monophonic sounds [ie- two-speaker mono]

>does not sound identical to a mono speaker.)

>

>Doctor Philharmonic

Having a sound from one instrument at stage center reproduced by two loudspeakers playing at equal loudness spaced several feet apart to create an illusory phantom center channel has always struck me as one of the shortcomings of two channel stereo. I also believe the ear/brain combination functions as a direction finding dipole array which makes judgements about the size and nature of sound by the way intensity increases in one ear and decreases in the other as the head is turned slightly. When all of the sound, especially high frequencies comes from the same direction because this "angular gradient" is high, IMO the brain judges it as a small source. At the opposite extreme, when moving your head makes no change in intensity in either ear, your brain concludes it is coming from nowhere in particular as I explained to Roundhome when I discussed binaural recordings. I've tried to overcome the shrillness which often comes from hi fi speakers exploring this assumption. I've also tried to improve the size of the listening area where you can get the best enjoyment from recordings. I don't like having to sit where X marks the spot.

>

>"Who let him out of his cage, John?"

>

>

>

>Here's one of the nicer posts from AudioKarma:

>

>Re: My favorite was the 3a - Soundmind 18:50:41 02/04/05 (5)

>

>With careful location within my room, additional tweeters, and

>equalization based on years of tweaking and a lifetime of

>critical listening, my AR9s sound superb to me. If it's on the

>disc, I will hear it...or feel it. Even with a 60 wpc (very

>fine) amplifier, deep bass is a seismic event. Highs soar and

>sparkle. Predominantly midrange sounds like human voices seem

>like they are right in front of me. Musical instruments on

>most recordings sound exactly like they should and I've

>certainly heard enough of them in my life to know what they

>sound like. The uniquely peculair sound of my recently

>acquired Steinway M piano and the one recording I found that

>reminded me so strongly of it sound virtually identical, one

>at one end of the room, the other coming from the other end.

>And every instrument including cellos and double basses are

>right there. Rostropovich playing the Dvorak Cello Concerto on

>DG, one of my very favorite recordings could hardly be more

>beautiful had he come for dinner and given me a private

>concert between Cognacs. Sorry if yours disappoints. I'm sure

>there is a waiting market which would pay handsomely for it no

>matter what condition it's in if you still have them.

>

>

This just goes to show that I'm likely to write almost anything after a good bottle of wine. That was shortly after that Steinway was moved from my aunt's house to mine (she swore a conspiracy of her neighbors were out to steal it, she's now 97.) It's been fun trying to get the AR9s to sound like the Steinway, they are at opposite ends of the same room. And on some recordings they do a pretty good job but because of the difference in the way they radiate sound and therefore the way it interacts with the room, you can still tell the difference, even when the timbre seems exactly the same. It's still very good though. Amazing how much bass it takes to duplicate the lower registers of a real piano. Everything must be in perfect proportion. I'm trying to learn to distinguish different piano manufacturers products by sound alone. I also own two Baldwins. I bought these speakers as a fluke, I wasn't out to buy anything at that time. It's a long story. I didn't particularly like them for the first five or six years I owned them. There was nothing I tried which made them sound right. After visiting an audio show and seeing what some manufacturers were doing with indirect firing tweeters, I figured I had nothing to lose except maybe blowing up an amplifier or two by adding them. But I didn't stop at one pair. I just kept going and going and going. It usually takes me about 2 to 3 years between adjusting the the radiating pattern and fiddling with an equalizer to make a speaker sound "right" to my ears. Funny, adjusting a 5 band equalizer for differences in recordings usually only takes a few seconds to a few minutes to make satisfactory adjustments. As of now, my AR9s are the most accurate speakers on the largest number of recordings I've ever heard. About a year ago, I threw a few switches and disconnected a few wires to restore them to their "factory" sound for the first time in around 15 years. I didn't keep them that way for long. I also heard a fairly large number of high end speakers at the VTV trade show in Piscataway last May, at a Harvey Radio outlet which recently opened near me, and at a couple of audiphile's houses. I have not been impressed by most of them. The only one I liked was called Opera Tibaldi which had 4 indirect firing tweeters. Sounded in the same vein as mine but not as good IMO. I think it costs about $17,000 Biggest disappointment was the A/N top of the line speakers with his own TOTL vacuum tube electronics, cd player, and record player. I heard it play one of my own recordings. Marian McPartland at Maybeck. The most striking defect was that she sounded like she'd suffered a lifetime debilitation resulting from polio in her left arm. Octaves 2 and 3 were very weak. Price for the system was about $500,000. I wouldn't trade for that either.

Mid Fi is what we call the other guy's very expensive equipment that we don't like.

[administrator]

After coming back from a long weekend and having been emailed complaints and seeing some bogus accounts created I'm going to lock this thread.

As many of you know I'm often an AWOL landlord here due to my full-time job. My attention to the forums isn't likely to change in the near future and I'm not a big fan of strict moderation, so maybe I can implement a compromise... a user based moderation system like Slashdot. Also known as a crap filter.

Anyway, everyone take a deep breath and let's not scare away all the classic AR fans!

Mark