ar90fan Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 navegating thru the Internet, I run across with an article published in the November 1979 issue of the prestigious British magazine Gramophone. Just in case it hasn't been published before in the forum, I'm attaching it because it holds some curious opinions and doubts about the historical role of Acoustic Research and Edgar Willchur, as the inventors of "air suspension" in general, as well as some funny comments about the AR 9 and AR 90 speakers. The remark that the AR 90's male speech has crusty character and an over-accentuation on some consonant sounds, REMINISCENT SOMEONE SAID OF BADLY FITTING DENTURES , is one of the most amusing comments I ever seen, a real gem.In general, it can be said that the article is dominated by some old British prejudgements, including:we as British invent and Americans patent, which maybe is true in many industrial activitiesGoodmans and Wharfedale were ahead in developing air suspension with which named bookshelf loudspeakerthe AR's trade-mark "Acoustic Blanket" was adopted years before by the BBC in the LS3/ 5A speakers, under the less pompous term "felted absorbent material"the acceptance of Allison's theories only with a pinch of saltNovember_1979_187.pdfNovember_1979_188.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 "The extreme bass produced by the twin woofers (resonance in box 36Hz) is quite powerful and the right choice of organ recording, suitably rendered at realistic volume, would dislodge Aunty Maud's unwanted present from Whitby from the stoutest mantlepiece".British "humour"--it's an acquired taste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 This review is not atypical of what came from the English magazines of the period - they tended to be protective of their own local manufacturers, and dismissive (if not disingenuously ignorant) of equipment from American companies.The citing of the nightmare 3 ohm load that the AR-90 presented to "modern amplifiers" is hilarious. It's almost as if Crown and McIntosh (not to mention the big Japanese manufacturers) didn't exist, and the entire world putzed around with little English amps that were always *this close* to overload.And Geoffrey Horn (!) apparently believed any system of bookshelf-size to be acoustic-suspension in design, and mistakenly conflated Villchur's patent with earlier English systems. Also, the BBC's felt material was not the same as used in the Acoustic Blanket - not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar90fan Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 This review is not atypical of what came from the English magazines of the period - they tended to be protective of their own local manufacturers, and dismissive (if not disingenuously ignorant) of equipment from American companies.The citing of the nightmare 3 ohm load that the AR-90 presented to "modern amplifiers" is hilarious. It's almost as if Crown and McIntosh (not to mention the big Japanese manufacturers) didn't exist, and the entire world putzed around with little English amps that were always *this close* to overload.And Geoffrey Horn (!) apparently believed any system of bookshelf-size to be acoustic-suspension in design, and mistakenly conflated Villchur's patent with earlier English systems. Also, the BBC's felt material was not the same as used in the Acoustic Blanket - not even close.I subscribe to all your comments, though regarding your first one, I'd say that unfortunately this protectionism affects not only to the British magazines of that period and in this specific field - high end audio industry - but to any other area. There's a Spanish proverb that says "nobody bites the hand that feeds you". This is the main reason why I decided long ago to stop purchasing specialized magazines. Sincerely, I prefer the opinions of final users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_S Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Not that the nationality of a human being gives me any cause for concern, but could it be the case that Tim Holl is/was British?Just curious, re: John Gilbert | Gramophone | December 1980 | Page 131"Following my visit to the Consumers Electronics Show in Chicago I had the good fortune to be invited to AR which is located a few miles south of Boston, Mass. It is of interest that several American loudspeaker manufacturers are headed by British personnel and AR is no exception. Ron Fone is President of Acoustic Research and Vice-President of Engineering is Tim Holl, both of whom were previously well respected in UK posts."http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/Decem...980/131/790800/See also Ken Kantor on Tim's role:"The 9 was a very ambitious product, and a collaborative effort. Some of the major ideas embodied in the 9 came from Bob Berkovitz's "Research" department; others came from Tim Holl's "Engineering" Department. To the best of my memory, Tim was the project manager, and had final design responsibility. Other key names that come to mind are Alex DeKoster, Steve Goldstein and Jim Kates. There were others I am forgetting, no doubt."http://audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?...mp;postcount=15Robert_S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 the entire world putzed around with little English amps that were always *this close* to overload.I can't resist....Know why the English drink warm beer?They have Lucas refrigerators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknofossil Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Just stumbled on this old string. As one of the engineers (and a English motorcycle owner-enthusiast) where I work said:Professor Lucas, father of darkness....(My brother, who owns 3 Sunbeam Alpines and one Tiger, agrees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Professor Lucas, father of darkness....Commonly referred to as "The Prince of Darkness"And this is really off topic, but I can't help myself:The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off.The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 The expression is: "Lord Lucas, Prince of Darkness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 I've always felt the Brits were justifiably extremely jealous of us here in the colonies, every bit as much as the French and maybe even moreso. What sour grapes.I like what they said about AR9: "an inadequately suppressed power complex.... succeeded in rendering untenable several floors of the Harrowgate at the 1978 audio show." And this was before the invention of CDs.I remember once upon a time when Britain still had a navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Didn't Lucas also invent the darkness emitting diode and the write only memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Except for extreme low frequencies, it's very difficult to tell the AR-90 from the AR-9. I wonder what the sales ratio of one to the other was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 off topic a bit, but similarly......Except for extreme low frequencies, it's very difficult to tell the AR-5 from the AR-3a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundminded Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'd expect AR5 and AR3a to have other differences at somewhat higher frequencies. While AR3a should have considerably superior bass compared to AR5 not just because its response is lower but its power handling capabilities are much greater, remarkably AR2ax/AR5 has advantages at the higher end of its woofer's range coupling to the midrange. I think this was noted by one or more reviewers.I never heard AR90 so I wouldn't know but after 30 years of experience living with AR9 it has a peculiar way if you let it of dominating and overpowering a room like no other speaker I ever heard. I have to admit there are many I haven't such as Infinity IRS which has 6 12" acoustic suspension woofers per channel and claims flat response to 20 hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryM Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Having both 9's and 90's I think at lower volumes the 90's sound better than the 9's. The 9's need a good amount of power put to them to start sounding right. Don't shoot me, it's just what I've noticed. Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl1856 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I am one of those of the opinion that the 5 can sound better than the 3a in room. I have owned and used both 3a and 5 (and 2ax). My father also has experience, having owned 3, 3a and 91 over the years. Used or positioned incorrectly, bass from the 3a can be overwhelming and can certainly affect the quality of the midrage. In my experience, the 5 is able to couple to a room more effectively. The bass may not be as deep, but it is detailed and because bass is better integrated into the whole, the midrange sounds better at the bottom of its range. In direct comarison to the 2ax, the 5 has a smidgeon more clarity in the midrange that is most appearant when listening to the human voice and the midrange has a bit better off access response. Otherwise they are indistinguishable from each other.As it happens, I am about to aquire a pair of AR92 for a good price. From the pictures I have seen, they look good, with all foam and felt intact, and the woofers have been refoamed. The 92 is an update of the 5; 10inch woofer from the AR90, with a dome midrange derrived from the 9 and 90, along with the dome tweeter from the 9 and 90. Unlike the 5 and 2ax, the 92 is rated as a 4ohm speaker. Should be interesting to listen to.Best,Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Good comments by soundminded and rl1856 regarding the qualities of the 5 versus the 3a; and now the 92. While I have never owned any of the 9-series speaker models, and therefore cannot comment from hands-on (ears-on?) experience, some of my notes on the various models indicate some part number differences that may or may not be significant.AR-90 woof: p/n 200031AR-90 upper-mid: p/n 200028AR-92 woof: p/n 200033AR-92 mid: p/n 200032Best of luck with your new 92's - - - let us know your impressions after you've taken them for a test drive.Edit: attached here is is an interesting report by the aforementioned Timothy Holl regarding the development of the AR-91 and 92 models - - - it spells out some of the specific differences between the drivers mentioned herein, including the placement of magnetic fluid in the midrange drivers (hence, different part numbers). I had seen this comment made on this site by Tom Tyson before, but with this report it now has a bit more context to it.(attachment file is large, so I am including the weblink as well.) http://www.classic-audio.info/assets/plugindata/poola/ar91andar92bytimothyholl.pdfar91andar92bytimothyholl.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted September 26, 2016 Report Share Posted September 26, 2016 Does anyone know if Tim Holl was responsible for the development of the AR90 and what he did after the 9 series speakers at AR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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