Gaining Speakers, While Losing My Mind!

[frankmarsi]

2-6-14

Big Problems here in AR-Ville, I mean really big ones!!!!!!!!

It's not as if I went to sleep last night and said to myself: "Oh, I think I'll buy some AR-9 speakers tomorrow."

Or: I woke up this morning and said: "Oh, I think I'll go look for some AR classic speakers today."

It was like some unworldly life-form was influencing me to do this. Something was behind all this, I assure you! I wouldnt act so off-handed like this? Or, would I?

It happened all so fast! Perhaps it was a 'UFO' intervention?

With a simple slip of the mouse, I purchased a pair of AR-9s.

Yes, I know I'm a devout AR-LST person, but I always promised to myself; that if one day I come across a pair of AR-9s at a good price and close in location, I would purchase them?

Well AR fans, today it happened and I dont know what to do with myself right now!

First off, I must ask if anyone has a clue regarding sources of the 'acoustic-blanket' material, as these cabinets are missing the smaller patches for the upper mid and high frequency drivers but, do have the major portion intact.

I'd want to replace or install the same material as this is how they were designed and I feel its necessary to have them complete.

Any input, suggestions, advice, or tips are most welcome in my time of AR-need.

fm

P.S. the looming question is: where the hell am I going to put these monstrous things now? At 130lbs. each, they're not easy to move during house cleaning or casual dusting, are they? Although, the stacked LSTs would'nt dare ever move either. At approximately 250Lbs. with stands on each side, my long ago weight training days have not left me with much fortitude.

And, what happens to my plans of making my digs an AR-LST flavored and controlled house?

What about my plans for the six-stacked AR-3a room?

I was planning on sneaking in a four stacked AR-2ax room also.

The miniscule AR-4xa were wondering where their place is too. The bathroom?

Let's not forget the two other minty AR-LSTs waiting to be used some where in this house? So far, I've only been able to set-up the stacked AR-LST room.

Have I become a Jay Leno sort of collector? With that in mind, I should'nt feel so guilty, I guess?

Now, curiously, I must re-think all of these plans, and its giving me a headache. Presently I'm feeling so greedy, lustful, so maniacal, and stupid, more than ever before! And although this feeling is not a stretch for me, I still have feelings of un-necessary AR-trauma and empty-headedness. I've lost my appetite too.

It seems as though my life is controlled, consumed and dictated by AR speakers, vintage SS amps and a ton, 4300+ in number of vinyl records, along with all of the ancillary little parts that are necessary for hook-up, and theres no place to harbor all this stuff with-out coming across as a weirdo. Again, not out of context entirely but, I'm feeling a little strange.

This is getting so crazy, I was never planning on becoming such an exaggerated, over the top collector of this stuff, not to this degree anyway!

Let's do keep in mind though, that I have no plans on giving any of this stuff away to sooth my aching head. That's not the answer for me.

Another question is: how do you peeps with more than I have deal with this feeling of guilt and greed? Do you attend a greed crisis center once a week?

Has your living partner given-up on you forever and quietly considering divorce or perhaps a surprise swift abandonment?

Are your children asking you if you have a 'will' on record with the local county?

Has your pet lost all respect for you?

And another thing Alice: JKent, Minh and RoyC, you three may be in the closest physical proximity to me I believe, so, your presence is certainly welcome.

[DavidR]

Congratulations!

Why can't a pair of 9's find me in my area.

[Robert_S]

First off, I must ask if anyone has a clue regarding sources of the 'acoustic-blanket' material, as these cabinets are missing the smaller patches for the mids and high frequency drivers but, do have the major portion intact.

I'd want to replace or install the same material as this is how they were designed and I feel its necessary to have them complete.

Any input, suggestions, advice, or tips are most welcome in my time of AR-need.

fm

The following post details one DIY approach, regarding the "acoustically transparent open cell polyurethane foam" insets. (Note: some older topics/threads appear to be displayed in reverse chronological order.)

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1533&p=57843

See aslo:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6150

As far as I know, not all AR-9 and AR-90 were fitted with said parts when new.

I'm assuming that you are referring to the foam, as pictured below, and not the acoustic-blanket material.

Robert_S

P.S. Problem? What problem?!

[frankmarsi]

I'm b-a-c-k!

DavidR and Robert_S, thanks for the replies!

I'm still waiting for the seller to reply back to me as I've paid already and just need to schedule a time this weekend for me to pick them up.

I don't mind saying I hope this seller doesn't get cold-feet about this sale, they were at a great price.

I'm looking for some one to help me cart them back to NJ as I don't think I can handle these muthas alone. Carting 6 LSTs here last year by myself was great exercise and pain.

It's hard living out here now with out a pick-up truck as it seems that almost half of the peeps here have a truck and I don't. Gees, except for this instance, I've never really needed a truck.

It appears that the speakers need the little square piece of the 'acoustic-blanket' material for the upper midrange speaker and also the tweeter needs its foam treatment.

Robert, I may be incorrect about the blankie thing, but I may be able to find some thick black foam and construct a similar reproduction. I was under the impression, well at least according to my semi-comatose mind that they used cut to size panels that matched the rest of the blankie? But, you have given me some very good links here and I will educate myself accordingly. There’s no blankie on any of my other speakers.

I'm still worried because the seller hasn't replied yet, except initially telling they were on Staten Island, but that was it. I spoke with ‘_ay-_al’ and they said everything is cool.

But, the money hasn't been deducted from my account yet, so I have reason to worry, especially being of 'Mediterranean' decent, we do that worry/negative thingie a lot.

I find myself tremendously overwhelmed with this present situation, especially since I’ve got so many other projects sitting around half-baked and not completed yet.

The stacked AR-LSTs are hungering for their own tweeters instead of just getting by with ‘Micro-Statics’ on top, although they do sound quite wonderful nonetheless.

Three pairs of 3a’s are clamoring for tweeters and refoams and the same goes for two pair of 2ax’s.

RoyC. can we work out a ‘day-rate’ for your efforts and advice? You’d have to be here obviously, but all living expenses would be paid. Even if you just directed and I did the manual labor? Where’s Minh, he and JKent are really the closest distance from me. You’d have your own single bed in the room with the working fireplace and new sheets and towels too.

But, I shouldn’t be so greedy with your time or anyone else’s. Who do I think I am?

But this is the 21st. century and from what I see on TV, everyone is being that way, that’s why I presume the rest of the world feels anger towards Americans isn’t it?

That film about Wall Street from the ‘80s, never saw it but, I heard the one line “Greed Is Good”.

Oh well, it seems I may have to sweat out this night waiting for the seller to contact me?

I’m starting to get scared and worried the dude changed his mind? On that big auction-site, he could turn around and say he sold them off the site at the last minute?

But let me be positive for once and not worry. Wait, that's not in my make-up.

Then, I’ll have to beg for help to move them from S.I. to NJ and I’m not very good at begging, it makes me very uncomfortable asking for ‘hand-outs’ and favors.

If and once they arrive, I’ll need a little time to understand “what a fine mess I got myself into”.

If Poppa were alive he’d say: “Eh! Mister, what da hell are you gonna do with all this junk?”.

You see, it's even guilt just thinking of deceased parents too.

fm

[JKent]

And another thing Alice: JKent, Minh and RoyC, you three may be in the closest physical proximity to me I believe, so, your presence is certainly welcome.

PM sent.

[stupidhead]

This post is something to aspire to. Thanx!

[frankmarsi]

This post is something to aspire to. Thanx!

**Follow-Up: 2-7-14, 10A.M. EST

The seller emailed me late last night and reassured to me it’s a go!

Now, I’m pondering how my lower-lumbar region will hold up while I move these heavy weight speakers?

Next, I must find some one to help with a van, a truck or what-ever?

Afterwards, I guess it all has to sink in as to my next thought or idea of where do these speakers fit into my over all perception of being a pseudo, neo,quasi, wanna-bee, sort of AR speaker collector person, or carbon-based life form?

These past couple of months I have been so ‘into’ my system and how wonderfully natural it sounds; actually it’s never been better.

Mind you, I don’t spend tons of money foolishly on accessories and the like. I usually buy reasonably priced interconnects and other related gear.

Lately I’ve invested in the world of moving coil cartridges and enjoying ail of the realism they can reproduce, all the while realizing how great my LST speakers sound. It can also be noted that; with every upgrade I made with the cartridges, the more I understand how neutral and un-biased the LST speakers behave.

With this new AR-9 purchase, I may be distracted from the main LST system and the enjoyment it has brought me.

I’ve never heard them before and my AR ownership and listening experience has never gone past the ‘classic’ models. I feel that the AR-9s occupy a separate area unto themselves, and obviously so, at least in terms of ‘box-configuration’.

So, if possible, I’d like to hear some member’s opinions about their AR-9 speakers. Quite frankly, I don’t think I’ll hook them up immediately.

Hearing other’s opinions and perceptions will be of great help to me.

There is now the consideration regarding choice of amps to power them with?

Driving them with a Phase Linear 400 may be perfect? I’m not planning on removing one of my PL700II amps out of the main LST system, so I should consider possible options, maybe an Aragon 4004, or another Series Two PL700? Macs are just too costly and very dear in price dollar per watt ratio.

Other thoughts would be placement: will these AR-9s sound better against the ‘front’ wall, or mid-room?

So, to be frank, (after all, that is my name), I’m feeling this purchase’s excitement may have to be postponed for the immediate future?

It’s a fact the lower midrange speakers must be re-foamed, no doubt the four woofers also, boom, there’s more ‘down-time’ just when I was digging the LSTs more than ever before and I’d rather listen to them than gluing foam-surrounds. I’m speculating the AR9’s ‘sound-stage’ may not be as ‘big’ or deep as the AR-LST’s is? The four stacked LSTs have a huge spread of sound across their sound field, that’s a given, believe you me!

May be I’m feeling buyer’s remorse? Realistically, this purchase wasn’t necessary at all! But, the price was so good, I’m embarrassed to say.

Gee, the sense of guilt and the unnecessary spending of money are really flowing through my mind now. That money could’ve been spent on more used vinyl, a higher priced moving coil cartridge, or better cables. Maybe food?

What are the expressions, “life is short”, “you only go around once”, “life is for living”, “it’s now or never” “get it while the getting is good”.

Each time I woke during the mid-night I had a headache, I better go take two aspirin; I’ll call you in the morning.

I promise a ‘first-look’ follow-up when they come into this house.

fm

P.S. If one watches the series, “Ancient-Aliens’ as much as I do? It can be suggested that with all of my amplifiers and AR speaker drivers, I may be able to set up such a large amount of ‘acoustic-energy’ that I may be able to muster up enough force that I would be able to lift this house off its foundations by means of ‘anti-gravity’ or ‘sonic-levitation’ forces?

You see, I’ve lost ‘it’!!!!!!!

[Mafia1976]

Frank, it sounds as if the AR bug has well & truly got you!! I have a few pairs but I have to say that the 9's sound amazing!! I'm am currently using a yamaha amp @ 150wpc & they sound beautiful.

I'm am currently saving for a decent power amp or a pair of monobloc's. I look forward to seeing the pics of yours & what you think of them once set up. I would highly recommend you check the caps (as I'm sure the pro's here will advise to) as several of mine were leaking. But once recapped & re-foamed I think you will enjoy them! Good luck.

Matt

[soundminded]

A word of advice on moving these. Remove the woofers before you try. You'll need the right size Allen wrench to remove the screws. This will make the speakers much lighter and eliminate the possibility of damage to the woofers in transit. IMO the best way is to lay them on their back straddling two chairs under them. Remove the top Allen screws (that would be the frontmost lying on their backs) last.

I usually put them in a large enough box facing each other diagonally with a cardboard separator. A cardboard box for a case of wine is often about the right size.

I'll be interested to know how you think the sound of AR9 compares with stacked LSTs. If it's not as good, I hope you have a room with a very high ceiling...for stacked AR9s

[ar_pro]

Nice catch, Frank!

Don't try to lift an AR-9 unassisted - it's bottom-heavy, and very awkward to carry.

Two fit people can move one speaker easily - I've enlisted both my wife and son for various moves, and as long as the stronger person takes the bottom, everything works out.

A reliable handtruck would be helpful, too.

And do be careful of the grills - they provide very little protection for the drivers (maybe even a false sense of security), and it's easy to accidentally snap a grill peg, or punch a hole in the cloth.

Sizewise, I've used a Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Ford Ranger to move 9s in the recent past, and they fit very nicely side-by-side on their backs - use furniture pads, or a comforter underneath, between, and alongside to keep them from banging into each other, or the vehicle.

As far as the foam inserts go, Robert_S has it exactly right - some AR-9s had them, and some didn't - my first new pair in 1979 did not have them.

And be sure to double-check for authentic drivers - the woofers are almost always original, but I've seen bad replacements for the 8" lower midrange, as well as all sorts of things in the upper mid & tweeter holes. You might want to have some good photos of authentic drivers on your phone for reference.

Good luck, Frank - keep us informed!

[frankmarsi]

2-8-14

Just got back at 12P.M., met with the supposed owner in Staten Island at 10A.M. sharp.

Right now, Im pretty tired and Ill tell you why.

Last night I waited anxiously for the owner to call after having sent three emails and receiving no reply, I was having doubts about this whole situation.

So, at 11:15 P.M. last night, a woman calls on the phone and says her husband who apparently didnt want to talk on the phone is the original owner since new and she and he are both in Florida but, the speakers are in S.I. at his fathers house.

Now Im feeling even more suspicious about this offering.

She tells me to go pick them up in S.I. and that her husband has received my payment. She had no other information to offer, even when pressed.

Im thinking: Rip-Off red flags are in the wind here!

O.K. thats not so hard to deal with, but I only was able to get one friend on S.I. to help me and he had a small car, so I was more worried about their retrieval than anything. I have a big car, but I know how difficult it was to transport AR-LSTs.

When I did move them, I had one LST on the front seat and one on the back seat. With all the twisting and turning and especially with the unwieldy shape of LSTs, my back and shoulders were not my friends the next morning and mind you I did that three times to move six LSTs. Then the same with six AR-3as.

Short story long, I decided to cancel my friends offer to help and decided to enlist one of my nephews who has a small Toy_ta P/U. I called him at 11:15P.M. and luckily he was willing to meet me near the bridge going to S.I.

We get there and the speakers are in the owners fathers garage.

After a quickie inspection, I wrapped each speaker in a large moving-blanket, taped them all around and with a few heaves and hos, we placed them back side down on the bed of the pick-up truck.

Arrived back in Jersey, we carried them into the house, he took the bottom and I the top. Hes 61 235Lbs. and works out with weights everyday, I didnt feel guilty about him lifting the bottom portion of the cabinets at all! Gee, for once I wasnt feeling any guilt!

The nephew left, I unwrapped them to see what I saw upon my first look.

To sum up: all foam on every speaker is absent with only hanging pieces left.

The inset pieces I mentioned earlier have completely turned to dust and the dust is resting on the ledge of the blankie.

The cabinets are only slightly faded in different areas but, not objectionably so. There is the typical fade-effect because of the grills being in place all those years of course. Where the side woofer grills cover the wood, that area looks more faded and dry than the exposed areas, which says to me, that perhaps someone liked furniture polish at some point? Or, these speakers lived in a dry climate?

Over all, Id say theyre about an 8.5 to a 9 in condition. Nothing a little wood care treatment couldnt bring back to original condition with a few applications hopefully.

The grills are not pushed in or sagging, all wood corners are sharp, no dents anywhere, all veneer is intact. All components seem to be the original parts for the entire speaker. It seems the drivers have never been re-foamed and it also appears that nothing was ever touched or repaired on these big-guys since new.

This is for me a good thing, as these are evidently from the first owner and Im the second-hand.

Heres a barrage of questions.

1)I like light-toned wood, but I realize that I must clean and treat the wood soon as it may be a little dry looking in places. Whats a good, cheap and fast cleaner that wont make the finish any darker than its original shade? I dont want to get into 3 step refinishing, or sanding and treating, just cleaning and protecting the finish in one or two passes of a rag.

Im talking Pledge' or something easy like that.

2)Gee, that lower midrange sure seems like a cheapo, Im somewhat disappointed in ARs choice of driver here. Who is a good dealer for the needed foam?

3) Peering behind a woofers absent surround, I didnt see any fiber-glass or similar stuffing present, is this as it should be?

4) Gosh, the terminal studs look flimsy but, acceptable for now, is there a

retro replacement available and how difficult would it be to replace?

5) Ive noticed S--ply Speakers offers a complete foam kit for all drivers on the web for $59USD. Are there any other recommendations, like perhaps Partsexpress or others that might be recommended through prior experience?

Soundminded, these woofers are using the usual AR philips woofer screw and not allen-head as you mentioned. Is this a way to determine age or date of manufacture?

In regards to your interest about how the AR-LST might compare sound-wise to these AR-9s. Well, Im feeling since Ive used stacked LSTs since 1990, I would compare them in that way, after all, it only seems fair.

I brought this up here a few years ago; would 4 stacked LSTs compare to a singular set of AR-9s? Because of the dual woofers used in AR-9s configuration, comparing a singular LST with one woofer doesnt seem fair to me.

When I finally restore the 9s, thats how I would compare them.

Why is it in my feeble mind, that Im thinking the AR-LSTs will out-do the AR9s in terms of the size of the sound-field. With the LSTs broad angular front, and the drivers mounted that way, it must be?

That is to say, Im thinking the spread of sound maybe broader with the AR-LST and the AR9s more directional. And because of that aspect, perhaps a more reverberant sound is a more realistic sound?

Thats something I will have to get used to obviously. Ive grown accustomed to the LSTs wide expanse of sound radiation, perhaps the AR9s will not be comfortable for me?

ar_pro, thanks for your input. And I applaud everyone who jumped into my sinking boat.

Somehow the AR Gods were with me and I succeeded in my greedy ways to procure even more AR classic speakers.

My present listening room is 26 X 13 or so. When one walks into the room and sees the four LSTs sitting at the far end of the room on 16 inch stands, totaling 55inches in height, (the AR9s are only a measly 52inches) they appear, well to a fanatic like me as if they are a shrine and look even temple or altar like.

I say this because when one gives so much credence and trust to their ears, mind and emotional feelings for the love of musical enjoyment and pleasure with these speakers looming there, controlling and pressurizing the room, one cant help but sense that silly notion.

So, to finally end my usual endless, droning, verbose and mindless diatribe, I will leave with another question for those brave enough to answer:

Will I be able to adjust, accept and enjoy AR-9 towers more than I already enjoy my stacked AR-LSTs, or will I be somewhat disappointed and maybe consider the future sale of the newly acquired AR-9s?

fm

 

[xmas111]

Will I be able to adjust, accept and enjoy AR-9 towers more than I already enjoy my stacked AR-LSTs, or will I be somewhat disappointed and maybe consider the future sale of the newly acquired AR-9s?

fm

Frankmarsi,

I've owned 9's since they came out. I've owned LST's (one set only) since 2012. I can't comment on stacked LST's but can imagine they sound awesome.

As for the 9's, my only comment.....you won't be disappointed!

You might want to think about bi-amping the 9's. They like lots of power.

Oh, and congrats on getting the 9's!

And I'm very jealous, I'm still looking for another set of LST's so I can have a stacked set......someday....someday.......

John

[ar_pro]

Everything sounds good, Frank - the condition you've described is exactly what you'd expect for a pair of unmodified, original-owner AR-9 speakers.

To address your points:

1.) Any decent lemon oil rub (like Formby's) would refresh the finish, without making any subsequent desired changes to the finish more difficult.

2.) You're going to be surprised with how good that 8" midrange really is - it's contribution to the overall sound of the AR-9 is underrated. I've used Millersound for critical refoams, but I'm sure someone will be able to give you a source for a quality replacement. Note that the original, porous dustcap is slightly larger than normal.

3.) No stuffing should be visible in the woofer's area (the 9 doesn't use fiberglass).

4.) The binding posts are what was common in the era, and they can be very easily changed with a more robust set. Parts Express is an excellent source.

If you compare the AR-LST to the AR-9, you wind up with "who do you like more, Betty or Veronica?".

While the presentation of the LST is wider, the AR-9 has a more focused sound; but you can tell that the overall delivery is from members of the same sonic family.

I don't think there's any question that your stacked LSTs will produce a wider field of sound - the 9's low-frequency response is more extended than the LST's, but I can't imagine that would be much of a factor with your multiple systems. I also think you'll be able to achieve a higher spl with the stacked LSTs.

Your listening room will have a substantial effect on the sound - the 15-foot, multi-angled ceilings in our listening room allow a good deal of natural reverberation, and our current AR-9 speakers sound significantly less "dry" than they did in a more conventionally-dimensioned room; with a more vibrant acoustic presentation, and a good sense of "air".

Be sure to check out the AR-9 manual for tips on positioning the speakers - that's important, too.

[frankmarsi]

"xmas111" said:

Frankmarsi,

I've owned 9's since they came out. I've owned LST's (one set only) since 2012. I can't comment on stacked LST's but can imagine they sound awesome.

(FM) Your imagination would be correct.

As for the 9's, my only comment.....you won't be disappointed!

(FM) I kinda trust that I won’t be, but maybe my strong feelings for the stacked LSTs is being challenged and I’m not comfortable?

You might want to think about bi-amping the 9's. They like lots of power.

(FM) You know, that thought didn’t cross my mind with all this excitement but, a very good consideration.

Oh, and congrats on getting the 9's!

And I'm very jealous, I'm still looking for another set of LST's so I can have a stacked set......someday....someday.......

(FM) you saying you’re jealous is making feel like a proud poppa here! I better start handing out cigars for the A9s too.

A feeling of joy has flowed through out my entire AR-self! Thanks!

John

[frankmarsi]

ar_pro said:

Everything sounds good, Frank - the condition you've described is exactly what you'd expect for a pair of unmodified, original-owner AR-9 speakers.

(FM) Exactly, an unmolested, original owner, low miles, maybe garage kept too.

To address your points:

1.) Any decent lemon oil rub (like Formby's) would refresh the finish, without making any subsequent desired changes to the finish more difficult.

(FM) That sounds do-able.

2.) You're going to be surprised with how good that 8" midrange really is - it's contribution to the overall sound of the AR-9 is underrated. I've used Millersound for critical refoams, but I'm sure someone will be able to give you a source for a quality replacement. Note that the original, porous dustcap is slightly larger than normal.

(FM) Yeah, it definitely looks untouched and original, but I;m somewhat surprise at the outward appearance, not what I expected from AR, even after the 'Teledyne' merger/take-over. Then again AR's have always been ugly under their grills.

3.) No stuffing should be visible in the woofer's area (the 9 doesn't use fiberglass).

(FM) Makes me wonder if some additional cabinet bracing is in order? I must be aware of not going too far though. I won't know until I poke my head inside one of the woofer cut-outs.

4.) The binding posts are what was common in the era, and they can be very easily changed with a more robust set. Parts Express is an excellent source.

(FM) Again, this was at that time their, 'Flag-Ship'/Capital-Ship, there must have been better binding posts around somewhere. And that plastic chrome moulding around the grill is also kind of not in place considering this TOTL model.

If you compare the AR-LST to the AR-9, you wind up with "who do you like more, Betty or Veronica?".

(FM) That might depend on the 'bounce to the ounce' ratio. My history has left with much experience and many unclosed doors for me.

While the presentation of the LST is wider, the AR-9 has a more focused sound; but you can tell that the overall delivery is from members of the same sonic family.

I don't think there's any question that your stacked LSTs will produce a wider field of sound - the 9's low-frequency response is more extended than the LST's, but I can't imagine that would be much of a factor with your multiple systems. I also think you'll be able to achieve a higher spl with the stacked LSTs.

(FM) The LSTs can and do get very loud. I use a SPL meter for a number of reasons and with the four LSTs cranking they can at peaks mind you, hit over 105db easily. I’ve registered certain bass peaks over 84db on short electric guitar ‘bass-breaks’ without a grunt of complaint from the woofers. I often refrain lately cause I realize that they are 'old-horses'. Still thrilling in all respects though, still have the get-up and go. AR-LSTs maybe the power hungry-est model made by the company?

Your listening room will have a substantial effect on the sound - the 15-foot, multi-angled ceilings in our listening room allow a good deal of natural reverberation, and our current AR-9 speakers sound significantly less "dry" than they did in a more conventionally-dimensioned room; with a more vibrant acoustic presentation, and a good sense of "air".

Be sure to check out the AR-9 manual for tips on positioning the speakers - that's important, too.

(FM) I like your term ‘dry’. It works for me. Pity the whole design of the LST has been tossed aside since it was discontinued as it did have many positive virtues in the reproduction of music source credibility. I surf the Hi-Fi area often outside of here and I'm reading some talk about the value of 'reverb' or 'hall', etc. ability regarding speakers and cartridges lately. It's not a new concern or thought, but it is as a term indicating the awareness of it all to a degree. Is old new again or is new again old?

I haven’t listened to my 3as since ’85 or so, but recall the directional effects of drivers in the same vertical plane for the 13 years I did use them before that. When I first purchased my AR-3as back in 1972 the trend was mostly as marketing promoted them; 'Book-Shelve' speakers and that's how I and countless others used them in the obvious horizontal position, woofers on the outside. Most all companies did the same.

It wasn't until a few years later that I listened to them in the vertical position. That would be the middle-late '70s and companies like Yamaha, Technics and the like were coming out with vertically aligned speakers, a trend then as it is now. The AR-9 as I recall was the first to use the side-mounted woofer design and some 'high-end' makes do it today the same way.

I'll post some fotos at some point.

I'm tired and hungry now. Tomorrow is another day. This one has truly been exciting!

[JKent]

All sounds good Frank. For the wood, you might try Howard Restore-a-Finish in "natural". It will not add any color. After that a coat of wax will hrlp. Howard Feed-n-Wax is a good choice.

For the refoam kit, try M_Sound. He (john) has been sort of invisible on the web lately but here's his email. Be sure to tell him you are a CSSSP member: msound@shentel.net

Good luck

Kent

[DavidR]

Should you not like them or not want to restore them contact me ASAP!

I'd be more than happy to take them off your hands.

[ar_pro]

The AR-9 was reviewed by Julian Hirsch in the July, 1978 issue of Stereo Review magazine - Hirsch was a huge AR fan, and really liked the LST, which he'd purchased for his own use.

Here's his closing comments on the AR-9, with a bit of a comparison to the LST:

(Don't forget to circle 105 on the reader service card).

[frankmarsi]

2-9-14 2P.M.

Today, I stayed away from the speakers, just walking by every so often and giving a glance at them, proudly I might add. Its very tempting to jump right in and start the re-hab process.

I haven't done the 'ole-battery-test yet, I wonder how long these woofers were with-out a surround and if the 'spider' has sagged to a bad place on one side?

Being critical while inspecting further, the wood side panels have more discoloration than I originally observed, small matter at this point, it's the sound that matters ultimately to me.

In terms of possible amplifier choices, holy-molly, I don't want to start spending even more than I already have on the hobby when I actually have several PL400s sitting around and a variac ready to use.

Besides, no matter what other peoples opinions might say, these are good sounding amps, and if mine were able to handle the LSTs with out any lack of discipline, they should handle the 9s too. The reports of this amps failure rate have been greatly exaggerated.

I did some reading this morning in CSP's library and looked at older posts. Learned about the cross-over configuration used with the 9s woofers. They may be not as difficult to drive as one might assume because theyre wired in parallel.

Another point in particular is that the 9s can utilize the same FNM2 fuse as the LST does. And although these speakers will absorb mucho wattage, I still would like the peace of mind of knowing that if I drop the tone arm/stylus again, I'll be somewhat protected. What's hard to beleive is that AR did not include a fuse post to begin with.

Last summer I took out one LST woofer in a micro-second.

Additionally,this also says loads about those wonderful dome midranges, I've never blown one of those, multiples of tweeters but, never a mid, and they have such a great sound! I wonder how the combination of the eight-inch cone and dome in the 9s will sound?

Because of this new purchase my mind is so clouded with thoughts of selling the 2axs, the 3as, and the pair of 4ax speakers, only using the bigger models from this point on?

Then, on the other hand, why should I deplete my collection if I had dreams of owning all this stuff when I was in my early twenties? It doesnt get much better than this at this price level I trust!

Besides, I didnt have many toys as a child, not like children from the post baby-boomer generation did, maybe these few years Im making up for it?

Thinking about the 9s cross-over, do I really have to replace any components there? Is it absolutely necessary?

Id rather just listen to the music these days and only repair or replace if theres no other option.

Im thinking I may not really know until I start listening and even then, could I perceive any differences in sound if any given components behavior is less than required?

Before I leave to go admirer these speakers again, does anyone have a idea of the numbers built, or a reference to use in determining actual year built?

fm

P.S. I'm a little unsure about some things and that's not out of charater for me but, looking at this post I wonder if the addition of 'Micro-Statics' is not out of consideration on top of the AR-9s?

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6102

On another note in the above linked post "soundminded' and in others posts "steveF' have mentioned the use of an equalizer.

My history is long in this hobby, most of my years in fact, although I obviously don't have nearly the abundant knowledge as many others on the site do.

I've used a graphic-equalizer since the late 1980s and in 2005 moved up to a parametric equalizer which is even more useful and beneficial.

I recall a time long ago when using one was taboo, these days I have no reservations and will gladly admit that I do.

While presently enjoying one system, I have enough components and gear to set-up another 4 quality systems. I will do that in time Martha, I will.

When I finally set-up the newly acquired AR-9s, bet your booty, I will use an equalizer, it's an important shaping tool and is not to be discounted so casually.

Some day I'd like to see a list of individual's equipment that is enjoyed with their AR speakers.

Personally speaking, how long can discussions of 'caps' and the like go on? And while it's good to realize that newcomers to this site bring a refreshing change, I'd like to read discussions on different areas too.

I feature that at some point the esthetic concerns and even personal perceptions of their systems will be dicussed here some day?

The benefit of an equalizer not doubt will be one that gets some 'air-time here also......

But please, don't belabor a point like I usually do. Like I just did, again.

[JKent]

I'm a little unsure about some things and that's not out of charater for me but, looking at this post I wonder if the addition of 'Micro-Statics' is not out of consideration on top of the AR-9s?

I don't know because I don't have AR-9s but I do use Micro-Statics with the 3a's. AND I have a pair for sale. PM me if interested.

Kent

[frankmarsi]

I don't know because I don't have AR-9s but I do use Micro-Statics with the 3a's. AND I have a pair for sale. PM me if interested.

Kent

Thanks much JKent, at this present time I own four pairs of the mighty Micro-Statics and like my AR speaker collection, I've reached a saturation point.

Although, if you offered them for a sneeze, I wouldn't turn them down either.

On another note, I've done a fair amount of AR-9 research these past couple of days and some opinions are not entirely favorable about them.

In some camps, the LST is more desired it seems, curiously enough.

I'm wondering now if I can actually get by with out changing any capacitors?

I wasn’t planning on it to start with but, now after rearching, it may be a first step before I do anything else? I hope not, I just want to hear these room dominating things soon.

I ordered the surround kit from this guy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380439384643?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 ,I sure hope the width of the surround roll is the larger one? They'll be here in a few days. In the mean time I'll remove the woofers and check for any sagging.

I'm theorizing that this AR-9 is perhaps an early released version?

I'll also do a battery test to see what I can.

Wish me luck fellas, I'm going in!

fm

fm

[JKent]

Four pairs! You're worse than me!

Please let us know if they enhance the 9s any. I do like them with the 3a and the KLH Twelves.

Kent

[frankmarsi]

2-10-14 5 P.M.

First Impressions: As soon as I put the philips-head screwdriver to the first woofer screw I knew AR had saved some money. Where the AR-3a and AR-LST screws are a heavy machine type screw, and they feel heavy machine like the AR-9’s were of a lighter weight and felt like 'self-assemble' furniture type screws. One or two were slightly loose besides.

I had felt that it wasn't very 'AR like' as I've refoamed the woofers on my LSTs and 3as many times and can attest to their more substantial feel of quality construction.

Looking at the MDF, it was not as dense or tightly constructed pressboard as I’ve found in the 3as and the LST.

The gaskets used were not as thick as the afore mentioned speakers, and the usual sloppy job of mounting it against the cut-out with the screws was apparent.

I noticed in places that the gasket may not have made adequate contact between the speaker and the wood, this only heightened my impression of lesser quality of construction.

I may have to use the P.E. gasket foam here? I find P.E.’s foam as being too thick generally, I wish they had a thinner type, but they don’t, so we’ll see.

I would not consider the rope caulking, as I have replaced surrounds enough times and the caulk is problematic.

Peering inside the woofer hole, well that was another story. I counted like 9 or 10 capacitors, a couple of sand resistors, numerous big and a small coils and many wires. It frightened me to think that I might have to replace some of those ‘caps’. I’ve read generally they all must be replaced. Curses!

I started feeling this is not going to be just a simple re-foam job in the least and that this was uncharted territory for me.

I did the ‘ole battery test and there was some uneasy sounding VC rubbing sound from both woofers in unison, which is obviously because they are not held centered with out their surround in place. I hope there's no other reasons that might be more serious.The light weight appearing midrange is not especially robust at all.

I’m going to stop at this point until I’ve re-foamed the first two woofers and midrange unit, then I’ll approach the second speaker after having some experience under my belt.

This may be a job for “Super-Man”?

I also sense the strong possibility that I will be falling in love with these speakers for the long term regardless of my initial impressions.

For me, they represent a certain plateau that AR had reached at their apex of success.

Since my early age of twenty two years, owning my first pair of AR-3as in 1972 to my current ownership of AR-9s forty two years later, I almost feel like I'm a part of their legacy.

Well, at least from a listener/owner's view point.

fm

P.S. I was thinking that I may place for test purposes anyway, the AR-9s in front of my AR-LSTs when they are finished being re-foamed.

My LSTs are about four inches from the front wall of 'their' room and I feel that might be good enough to hear the 9s the first time out.

After I listen to them for a couple of days, they will be in another room of their own. I called the forklift operator and his schedule is flexible.

[Steve F]

Hey Frank,

I posted this a few years ago when I got my 9's, but I thought you might like to read it again. BTW, I run them w/o any EQ, and no Microstatics.

I picked up a pair of AR-9’s a few months ago from a Forum member here in MA. They were in truly excellent shape, the 12” and 8”-ers re-foamed with care and the x-o re-capped correctly. (The previous owner is an MIT electrical engineer.) The cabs have nary a scratch and the grilles have no tears or pulls. Truly a great find, and my unrelenting appreciation to the previous owner for keeping them in such good condition.

Like many Forum members, I have too many speakers already and I certainly didn’t need these. Restored 3a’s were my main music speakers in an upstairs office (I have a BA-based HT system in the family room that is quite excellent in that role) and I wasn’t looking to change.

But….well, you guys know how it is.

So, we have this “living room” downstairs. Not our big 23 x 25-foot family room where the big screen is with the BA HT system. A living room, off the main traffic pattern of the house, a room that can be sealed off with closed doors and be made private. It’s not huge—about 17 x 13 or so—but big enough. Like most living rooms, very little “living” takes place in it, and the room goes mostly to waste.

Perfect for the 9’s.

Full credit to my wife. She has green-lighted all these recent indulgences of mine (“Hey, we put the girls through college and gave them values such that we couldn’t have hand-picked nicer men for them to marry. Mission Accomplished. You want to spend a few bucks on some speakers and such? Go ahead, have some fun.” What a gal.)

I had originally pre-wired this room for surround sound when we built the house back in ’02, but things came up and we never made this room a theater. I may or may not put a TV in this room, but if I do, the TV will be augmented by the 9-based music-oriented system, not a 5.1 HT system.

Initially, I was driving the 9’s with an ‘80’s-era NAD 7140 receiver, rated at 60/60 into the 9’s 4-ohm impedance. The NAD is actually quite a gutsy little receiver, with a big toroidal transformer and double output devices nestled in substantial heatsinking. It’s 60 watts per channel the way 60 per side is supposed to be. In this smallish room, it was surprising how well it drove the 9’s.

But the NAD was never intended to be the permanent solution, so I bought a Parasound 2100 pre-amp and their model 2250 power amp—385 wpc into 4 ohms—to power the 9’s. 385/side might be overkill in this size room (fully 8 dB more power than the NAD), but I never run out of power, which is nice.

Here’s the twist, and it’s a nice one: Remember I said that the room was pre-wired for surround sound? Never one to let good speaker wiring go to waste, I mounted some Atlantic Technology 4400 SR bipole/dipole surround speakers on the sidewalls, alongside the listening area. The 4400’s have a triangular cross section (like the Allison:Ones) with dual 4 ½” woofers and dual 1” tweeters. From the Parasound pre-amp’s ‘rec out’ jacks I feed the ‘aux in’ of an NAD C-315BEE 40/40 integrated amplifier. The NAD drives the side-mounted AT’s and I use them to fill in the rear of the listening room at a low level, just enough to ‘flesh out’ the image for a shade more three-dimensionality. The AT’s also use a soft-dome tweeter like the AR’s and they’re voiced similarly. When the level is properly set, you don’t even hear the 4400’s as a discrete sound source.

I love this set-up.

Now, to my impression of the 9’s. I (or my Dad) have owned, since 1969 in chronological order (as well as my rapidly-aging memory can recall):

4x’s

‘New’ 2ax’s

LST-2’s

11’s

--------------

91’s

50t’s

--------------

Restored 3a’s

My two older cousins each had 3a’s during my new 2ax timeframe.

I’ve also had assorted ‘secondary system’ speakers like TSW 105’s, 110’s, etc.

I’ve enjoyed all of them and they all have their particular charms. There is a dividing line of sorts, between the sound of the 11’s and the sound of the 91’s, to my ear. Old and new. The 11 was more closely related to the sound of the 3a than it is to the 91 and 50t, in my opinion.

The 9 is an effortless speaker that for all its capability and size doesn’t call a lot of attention to itself. Obviously with dual 12-inch woofers, you expect bass, bass, bass, but that’s not the first thing you hear. Instead, the first thing that strikes you is the speaker’s amazing transparency and presence. It is definitely NOT merely an “11 with more bass.” The 9 has a striking midrange clarity and utter command of the material such that the listener is really “listening through” the recording, right to the performance itself (at least on good recordings). No doubt the speaker’s 4-way design and the 8” driver’s 200-1200 Hz role has a lot to do with its complete lack of midrange strain and coloration.

And further, the 9 is so revealing that colorations and nasal vocals on what you previously thought were “excellent” recordings can occasionally make themselves quite apparent. Conversely, what you previously thought were mediocre recordings sometimes turn out to be models of understated excellence. As I said, this is not merely an 11 with more bass; it’s a different caliber of speaker altogether.

Like all ARs, if there is little or no deep bass on the recording, you get (accurately) little or no deep bass from the 9s. At moderate listening levels, it has a very AR 10-inch character to it; at loud levels, it takes on the more authoritative AR 12-inch sound. Only at the upper-upper limit does it really show what it can do. You find yourself pre-emptively “cringing’ a little bit, waiting for the breakup, the distortion, the strain.

It never comes.

Assuming no amp-induced distortion (and with 385 wpc RMS in my modestly-sized room, there isn’t any), the 9’s just never run out of steam. You find yourself playing things a bit louder than usual just because everything is always so darned clean. When the branches of a decorative artificial tree in the corner were literally waving in the breeze, I knew the 9’s were really cranking. But sweetly.

It is definitely ‘modern’-sounding, in that it has plenty of HF energy and very precise ‘imaging,’ if imaging is important to you. I have extensive acoustic treatments adorning the walls (my wife the Understanding One, again), and I still find that I run the 9’s with the lower and upper mids at “-3.” I run the tweets flat out, however, in deference to my 50-something ears.

A good friend of mine is an acoustic engineer at a well-known speaker company, with several highly-regarded products to his credit. He’s in his mid-thirties, has excellent hearing, and knows how to listen (the two do not necessarily go hand-in-hand). His immediate impression of the 9’s when he first heard them was that

1) They were truly excellent, as accurate and wide-range as the best speakers he’d ever heard (he had never heard old AR’s before, only heard about them), and

2) He was amazed that ‘back then,’ engineers were allowed to make the best-performing product they could, and then the industrial designers made the best-looking design that they could out of what they had to work with. These days, it’s often just the opposite—the industrial designer and Marketing pick the look and size first, and then the engineers do the best they can with the hand they’re dealt.

I have great respect for the 9’s design, its purity and purpose. There is not a single nod to flash or appearance for appearance’s sake. The side woofer grilles are remarkably clunky looking, purely functional. The 8” lower mid driver looks just like the 8” woofer from any $90 AR bookshelf speaker. Considering that the 9’s 8-incher crosses over at a low 1200 Hz, AR could have fancied up the cone’s and dustcap’s appearance with all manner of treatments and plastic appliqués, since those would have only affected the upper-range of that driver’s response anyway (above, say, 2000 or so, well beyond the bandwidth where that driver is used in the 9), but the thought never entered AR’s mind. Just make it perform as good as possible, and let the looks fall where they will.

The 9 is an amazing engineering tour-de-force, taking on so many different speaker problems at once (deep LF response w/controlled impedance, no driver interference in the H plane, reduced near-field baffle reflections, wide uniform dispersion, elimination of ‘Allison-effect’ problems when properly placed, very high PH, etc.), and it deals pretty successfully with all of them.

That so many jaws still continue to drop upon hearing them (including mine!) 30+ years after they came out, says it all.

Steve F.

[frankmarsi]

2-11-14

Last night while dredging the internet, I read about a fellow who uses, oh I don’t recall exactly, but it was like 7 or 10, AR9s in his home theater set-up.

I thought what in all of God’s creation would that sound like?

I woke up earlier this morning and peered into the other room where the two, thirty six year old beasts are looming. They seemed lost and unsure of their new home and owner.

One AR9 looking disheveled and completely defeated, literally in pieces, with empty woofer holes gapping and the smallish midrange sitting on its magnet appearing defenseless and vulnerable. A strange thought came to my mind, I felt eerily uncomfortable and unsure of my surroundings.

I realized I was thinking heresy, sacrilege and unholy chaotic thoughts.

I was thinking that this room with those huge AR9s could be a theater room with a sixty+inch LED screen. I was having cheapish thoughts of being at a huge ‘B_st-Buy store while on a bad hit of acid for six plus hours. Yes, that would aptly describe it.

Good heavens, me, having hellish dark thoughts of using these great speakers for a movie playback system? Good gosh, how condescending would it be for them if this were real!

Have I really gone off the deep end, have I fallen off the wagon and become a feral animal feverishly wandering in the woods? Was I falling into the depths of surround-sound insanity like so many others have before me??

This thinking, made me feel uneasy, devious and wild animal spirited.

In my fiendish mind was I going to relegate the actual survivors, the top-tier, the veritable stalwarts of the AR legacy as ‘home-theater’ utility like movie-sound track reproducers? Were they to become like so many Altec A7s in days of old?

Was I going to allow ‘big-brother’s’ video tool of societal manipulation control my very thoughts and mind?

I thought, gee, I could use these AR9s as the main front speakers, a singular AR-LST as the middle speaker and four AR-3as as side speakers. And perhaps, an additional singular AR-LST thrown in the back middle with two more AR-3as on either side of it supporting the rear.

Luckily, I quickly switched over to a more lucid and alert mood.

For me AR’s have always been the vehicle to achieve a deep closeness with music.

Important rock, blues, pop, and of course the real basis of most music, ‘classical music’ are what they were designed for. Musical pieces of historical musical fame and its celestial value are their domain. That thought with a strong under-tow like a powerful wave kept beckoning me. That feeling of drowning was horrible.

I had to wake up for real!

With a clear head after two cups of coffee and a bowel movement by 9AM, my mind started to settle down as I walked past the room containing the two new arrivals.

These speakers weren’t built with explosions and crashing sounds from movie sound tracks in mind.

These imposingly monolithic appearing speakers were designed with music in mind, all kinds of music, to be played through them, in order for the fortunate listener to be propelled into a world of elegant musical bliss and that’s what I feel I should keep them as.

fm

P.S. Should my mind ever sway to that ‘home-theater’ den of inequity and you guys here are aware of it, please call the local ‘crisis help center’ immediately. Thank you.

Before I had finished writing about my silly journey, I had the opportunity to read Steve F’s post. Your information has helped greatly! Molti piacere!

Thanks Steve, I always felt you might be the one who quietly understood the real essence of my AR speaker loving foolish self!

For me, each upper-tier AR speaker resembles a different species or type of lovely flower. Each time I view the flower, I feel poised to enter the true domain of the appreciation of being on this planet. It’s all a very ‘earthy’ feeling.

Gee, am I blushing? I feel flush all over with silliness, just dripping with syrup, much like a leaking capacitor if you will.

fm

The crisis center number is 555-5555. Just ask for Eleanor or Agnes if Ethel is not there. Catherine is the new young hot one. I’ll enjoy a shot of ‘Haldol’ with her any day!

Just kidding, just kidding!