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All Advent questions answered


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#21 Pete B

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 04:28 AM

>So here's the scoop, Pete.
>The woofers in my 5102s are like Ed's, with a raised
>backplate.
>Front and back plates are 1/4".
>Magnet is 5/8" thick.
>There's a pair of 5012s on eBay now at $100 + shipping from
>NY.
>
>What's the big deal about a raised/bumped backplate? Allows
>longer cone excursion? Is the second question good enough for
>another laugh?

Hi Russ,

Oh, Interesting, it is different then.
Original:
3/8" plates
3/4" magnet
5012:
1/4" plates
5/8" magnet

I could enter the numbers in the spread sheet that I have,
but we'd need to know the voice coil length. Don't know
if the kept the 5/8" length, another common one is 3/4" for
these old long throw woofers. But we won't know without
looking at one. Anyone have a blown 5012 woofer?

Yes Russ the raised back plate allows the VC to move further
back before making the loud crack sound as it hits the plate.

We should probably start a new thread about the 5012 woofer.

Thanks Russ,

#22 dynaco_dan

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 04:12 AM

Hi Doug;

Well said, Doug, thank you very much.

This site is for those person's, whether male or female.

They come and find or add to interesting hifi write-ups and thoughts of person's from all over the world.

It is as non-commercialized as it can be.

There is a forum here, specifically dedicated to the buying and selling of one's own personnal hifi equipment.

By you posting your personnal hifi items for sale or wanted, you can be better located or we can make suggestions, rather than your items getting lost deep in other forums.

This is a, not for profit site, please do not list sale items, such as an on-going business, as you would on eBay.

There has been some attempts at Spamming here, but, Mark is on top of that issue.
VERN

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#23 Guest_russwollman_*

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 02:28 AM

So here's the scoop, Pete.
The woofers in my 5102s are like Ed's, with a raised backplate.
Front and back plates are 1/4".
Magnet is 5/8" thick.
There's a pair of 5012s on eBay now at $100 + shipping from NY.

What's the big deal about a raised/bumped backplate? Allows longer cone excursion? Is the second question good enough for another laugh?

#24 Doug G.

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:51 AM

>have a pair of advent speakers I was told they are worth
>money. serial number U108163 I cant find info on them and
>would like to sell but would like to be able to tell someone
>about them thank you. jo

Jo,

It is generally not a good idea to come to a forum like this, where almost all of us are truly interested in these speakers for more than just their worth, just to find out how much you can get for them. You are likely to be met with silence or indifference.

However, if your utilities are in excellent condition (no cabinet damage, perfect drivers not needing refoam, and no extraneous noises), they are worth about $100. Less if any of the mentioned conditions are not met.

Doug

#25 Guest_gkentsmith_*

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:50 AM

Advent/1 are a very good speaker. Depending on vinyl or walnut variety they can fetch anywhere from $99 to $159 on eBay. I would rather see you try craigslist or Audiogon first, eBay buyers are idiots. I recently got a pair of Powered Advents (80w per tweeter and 80w per woofer EACH, plus an Advent 300 receiver designed for them for $255. So examine the other options first. If they are walnut in good condition I might be interested also.

Kent

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 08:57 PM

have a pair of advent speakers I was told they are worth money. serial number U108163 I cant find info on them and would like to sell but would like to be able to tell someone about them thank you. jo

#27 Pete B

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:24 AM

I think your joking but, your comment did give me a laugh!
Here's a picture of Ed's 5012 raised or bumped back plate:
http://www.classicsp..._files/1543.jpg

Here's the thread where we discussed it:
http://www.classicsp..._id=&page=#1336

I would be very interested to know the back plate, front plate,
and magnet thickness. 1/4" plates are very common, however the
original and New LA woofers had 3/8" plates. I'm curious about
the 5012 woofer if you happen to take a look.

Thanks very much for the offer about the crossover, but I
bought a pair of 5012 XOs on ebay just for curiosity sake.
There's a 7 uF from the + input to the fuse. Other end of fuse
has an inductor to ground (fairly large air core), also a
32uF to a 3 ohm resistor, other end of resistor to tweeter +.
Woofer has a not so large air core inductor in series with
the + lead, wired with positive polarity.

Best Regards!
Pete B.


>Pete—you know enough about me to know that I don't know what
>a backplate is. But if you tell me, I'll take the woofer out
>and try to find it. If it's big enough, I just might have
>lunch on it tomorrow, and even outside, if the sun shines.
>
>I have these 5012s just sitting idle. I don't want to put them
>on eBay because they never bring what they're worth. And
>they're quite good. The cabinets are just a little larger than
>the original Advent Loudspeaker, the x-over is different,
>there's no tweeter level control, and the tweeters haev fuse
>protection (which I have disabled).
>
>While I'm inside, I'll examine the x-over and note the details
>for you, so you'll have something else to think about this
>week ;-)

#28 Guest_russwollman_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 02:50 AM

Pete—you know enough about me to know that I don't know what a backplate is. But if you tell me, I'll take the woofer out and try to find it. If it's big enough, I just might have lunch on it tomorrow, and even outside, if the sun shines.

I have these 5012s just sitting idle. I don't want to put them on eBay because they never bring what they're worth. And they're quite good. The cabinets are just a little larger than the original Advent Loudspeaker, the x-over is different, there's no tweeter level control, and the tweeters haev fuse protection (which I have disabled).

While I'm inside, I'll examine the x-over and note the details for you, so you'll have something else to think about this week ;-)

#29 Pete B

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:35 PM

Hi Russ,

Interesting comments regarding your comparision of the
5012 to the LA.
Do you happen to know if the 5012 woofer has a raised backplate?
We discussed this in another thread as you might have noticed.
It might be slightly better than the New LA woofer, mainly
when pushed hard.
I'd like to hear those 5012W's I'm curious now.

Best regards,
Pete B.

>Hello, gks.
>
>I have a pair of 5012W's, made during the Jensen years. To me,
>they sound exactly like the Advent Loudspeaker, though the
>x-overs are different and the cabinets are slightly larger in
>every dimension—about 1/2 inch.
>
>They never seem to draw much interest on eBay, and rarely come
>up there. So I have this very nice pair, in very nice
>condition, with new poly caps and pretty fresh woofer
>surrounds, and I'm wondering what to do with them (since I
>already have 4 Advents in a double system and two very lovely
>Smaller Advents I recovered in white birch veneer and
>refurbished with new tweeters and x-over components—AND
>resting securely on beautiful stands I made myself).
>
>If you have the answer to THAT, you most certainly ARE and
>expert, because anyone who knows what action I should take has
>to be an expert. I am expert at many things, but knowing what
>to do is not usually one of them ;-).
>
>Your original post was engaging.
>
>Best wishes.
>
>Russ Wollman
>
>

#30 Guest_gkentsmith_*

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 05:25 PM

Ah, I wondered if anyone would notice! That is a 12" AR9 woofer that is part of a personal restoration project of immense scope. Someone should be arrested for what that AR9 pair was like when I rescued it.

And the pic was just of the stuff in my "shop" (aka spare room) that got shoved to the middle. The "House of Advents" is two 5' x 10' storage units crammed full of (mostly walnut and Smaller) Advents waiting for me to do various things to.

#31 Doug G.

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 03:35 AM

Wow! Kent's "House of Advent"!

Hey, what's that driver on top of that New Advent with the round magnet? An interloper?

Doug

#32 Doug G.

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 03:30 AM

By the way. If anybody wants to see some greenies with little magnets, there's a pair on eBay now.

It appears that these have the randomly canted masonite plates. They do have grilles.

Doug

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 03:05 AM

>I made a cool find when stripping the vinyl off one of the
>speakers. I can now say with absolute certainty that the MDF
>used by Advent was "Premium Grade Interior Floor
>Underlayment" (I found a manufacturers stamp on the wood
>of one speaker). A typical Henry Kloss kind of approach.

Kent:

I assume that you are talking about a pair of Advent Utility models here. The internal construction of New Advent cabinets changed periodically, from model to model.

Here are a few interior cabinet pictures that I took of some New Advent speakers. So far, I have found three different types of wood used in the various cabinets.

The website below contains pictures of the interiors of the A3, A4 and U4 speakers:

http://home.comcast....ntCabinets.html

One-Shot Scot

#34 Doug G.

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 05:01 AM

An electric screwdriver will make taking all those tweeters out a lot easier. Hehe.

Doug

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 08:18 PM

Doug,

I repeat my previous comment: "Curse you, Doug" (lol). I had extensive emails yesterday with an eBay seller who has refoamed Advent/2s and I need surrounds. The tweeter issue reared its ugly head and he sent me the link to our library article. Needless to say I was immediately taken aback. Sigh, more testing and more crossover analysis to come. He indicated to me that he has supplied crossovers to people over the years and has gotten the occasional comment that they appeared different. I don't know if they were the Large or the Smaller.

Since I have an extreme collection of both sizes and WAY too many tweeters not to mention crossovers of both kinds "parted out", I guess I'll have to start an analysis one day soon. The one thing I THINK I can say with tentative certainty, is that I believe the orange never got made with the smaller magnet. I'd have to (unnecessarily) remove too many pair to be any more certain. I have a lot of spares and they all have the larger magnet.

Now I have to get back to reorganizing my work room. I'll try to attach a pic or 2 of what it looked like after the shelving was installed Saturday

Kent

Curse you, Doug! (again for emphasis)

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#36 Doug G.

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:37 AM

You are correct Bob. The lower efficiency of the Smaller Advent was mostly offset by the ability of SS amps to deliver more power to a 4 ohm load.

It's just that it doesn't appear that we can just go by diaphragm color to tell which is an "Advent Loudspeaker" tweeter or a "Smaller Advent" tweeter.

Doug

#37 Doug G.

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:25 AM

A reply from the wretched, cursed depths of aitch-e-double toothpicks.

I have used the same brochure as a guide to differentiate between the original Advent and the Smaller also. I have never seen one that stated that the tweeters were identical. Interesting.

It does kind of follow, however, some discussions that have occured about later Smallers having large magnet tweeters. Advent must have changed them somewhere along the line. I maybe be imagining this but I seem to vaguely recall something about they decided that maybe the original alignment resulted in a bit too "reclusive" top end.

A smaller magnet would reduce the sensitivity or efficiency of the driver. It takes more current through the VC to get the same excursion compared to one with a larger magnet. It's the same with electric motors. The stronger the magnet, the less current it takes to rotate the armature.

It would be interesting to find out if they changed the crossover in the Smaller Advent as they did with the original Advent Loudspeaker over the period of manufacture.

If they didn't, it would seem to support my supposition, above, that they decided that the Smaller needed more top end. If they changed the crossover at the same time as using large magnet tweeters, it would indicate that they maybe just wanted to use the same tweeter in both instead of making two separate tweeters.

Does anybody remember the serial number restrictions Advent put on the back of the replacement tweeters? I'll have to see if I can find the info in past correspondence.

Of course, this still doesn't resolve the green/orange issue because there are greenies of both large and small magnet design as Kent said. :^) I can't remember if there are both large and small magnet orangies.

I now retreat into my cursed existence where there are no caregivers to help. :^)

Doug

EDIT: Oh yeah. As Kent indicated, the impedence of the tweeter has little really to do with the impedence of the speaker system as a whole. That is more determined by the woofer and crossover.

#38 Guest_gkentsmith_*

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 01:34 AM

As the document in our library states it you are correct. The THREE tweeters (orange, small magnet green, and large magnet green) all yield precisely the same reading on 2 separate multimeters. To confuse things further, I have 5 of the sales brochure like the one in the library. Four of them make a point of the smaller magnet. One states that they are identical. Each brochure has a slightly different format than the other. I will test all three tweeters hooked up to the crossovers I have and see what I can find. I will post the results here in a few days.

As far as the 4 ohm question is concerned, that is a total system function. It includes the woofer and the crossover. I would like to know, if the ohms are the same (they are), does the magnet size affect audible performance.

Curse you Doug, for starting this!

Peace,
Kent

#39 mrdb

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:58 PM

I thought that the green tweeter was used in the Smaller Advent speaker, with a 4 ohm impedance. The literature that I have talks about being able to use a smaller magnet on that tweeter (lower sensitivity and lower cost) because of the sensitivity difference between large and small woofer. Making the Smaller a 4 ohm impedance allowed solid state amps and receivers, which were plentiful by this time and likely to be used with a speaker in this price range, to deliver more power to the speaker.

Bob

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:30 PM

Oh how I hate to eat crow! Guess what? At one time there WAS a definitive difference between the green and the orange tweeters. I am currently organizing my spare parts and other things related to the work space.

I found a pair of green tweeters with a SMALLER MAGNET than the magnet on the orange tweeter and some of my green tweeters! This is completely consistent with the page Advent9.jpg of the brochure in our library under the subject: Brochure describing the The Advent, Smaller Advent, and Double Advent loudspeaker systems.(http://www.classicsp...advent_broc.zip)

The really odd thing is that I have at least 5 or 6 of these and never noticed the short reference. The good (?) news is that I still get a DCR of around 3 ohms on both the smaller magnet green and the larger magnet orange.

Now, in addition to everything else, I have to hook up both sizes of green tweeters to crossovers and see if there is any difference in impedence. The things a guy has to do to retain the "self-described expert" status is getting complicated (lol).

Anyone have an idea if the smaller magnet will affect performance regardless if the impedence is the same?

Kent




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