Doug,
The reason we read the caps with our meters is that when you removed that hard substance covering them (you know the goop that's on everything, especially the screw heads for the binding posts?) there was nothing left of the markings that you'd expect to find!
Silly Advent and their "seat of the pants" approach. You'd think HK never expected us to be mucking about in his stuff over 30 years later - lol.
Kent
All Advent questions answered
Started by
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, Oct 17 2006 11:09 PM
106 replies to this topic
#62
Doug G.
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Posted 04 December 2006 - 05:06 AM
Oops, my faux pas. I didn't realize that you actually measured them. Now who's silly? :^)
But, I don't think Advent actually purposely put 13s in the originals. 'Course, somebody along the line could have changed them like you said. Was there any value printed on the caps?
I suppose they could have drifted down to 13 from 16.
Doug
EDIT: You did NOT say "somebody" could have changed the caps. You said maybe Advent did. Read more carefully Doug. Hehe.
But, I don't think Advent actually purposely put 13s in the originals. 'Course, somebody along the line could have changed them like you said. Was there any value printed on the caps?
I suppose they could have drifted down to 13 from 16.
Doug
EDIT: You did NOT say "somebody" could have changed the caps. You said maybe Advent did. Read more carefully Doug. Hehe.
#63
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 09:09 PM
Kent,
You said in your initial post that you were interested in finding a pair of powered Advents. I recently noticed a pair for sale on eBay, at http://cgi.ebay.com/...et&isfrommerc=1
Jim
You said in your initial post that you were interested in finding a pair of powered Advents. I recently noticed a pair for sale on eBay, at http://cgi.ebay.com/...et&isfrommerc=1
Jim
#64
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Posted 14 February 2007 - 08:15 PM
>Mark,
>
>There are many possible speakers that you may be referring to.
>In the event you are not up-to-date on the Advent chronology
>let me give a quick overview. The Henry Kloss founded Advent
>lasted for years after he left sometime in 1974. The company
>went bankrupt around 1980.
>
>The name Advent was then bought by Jensen who continued to
>manufacture many models of Advent (the Laureate, Heritage,
>Prodigy, Prodigy Tower I & II, Legacy I, II, III, Maestro
>and some of the smaller models I won't detail here). These
>were, generally, solid MDF painted black with Pecan wood tops
>and kick plates or even entire front panels. Jensen was
>eventually bought by Esmark corp and produced some real trash
>under the Advent name but looking much as the Jensen models.
>
>At some point the Advent name became the property of Recoton,
>who is currently producing some matal & rubber, futuristic
>looking things called Advents but which bear absolutely
>nothing in common with any of the iterations before them.
>
>I hope this rather long dissertation has been helpful.
>
>Kent
>
I'll refine and fill in your chronology, for future reference.
Henry Kloss was at Advent in 1975 when the first prototypes of the
stamped aluminum frame woofer were produced, and he approved them for production. That was early 1975. That year, Advent posted a loss,
and was recapitalized with new investors. Henry was thereafter
excluded from product determination decisions - that was late in
1975. Henry dissociated himself from the company after that to pursue
private video projects that led in 1977 to the founding of Kloss
Video Corp. It doesn't appear that quitting Advent Corp. was a
clean or sudden break. Andy Kotsatos, the designer of the Smaller
Advent, remained with the company another couple of years, and was
responsible for the design of the New Advent in 1976/7. The speaker
foundered among profligate competition.
Advent declared bankruptcy reorganization in Mar. 1981 and entered into an agreement to be acquired by Kloss Video. That fell through,
and the bankruptcy petition was amended to liquidation later that year. International Jensen was an autonomous unit of the Esmark Corp.
in 1982 when Jensen acquired the assets of Advent out of bankruptcy
The Jensen unit itself went bankrupt in 1995, and was acquired by Recoton. There is further history with Thomson Electronics and
Audiovox, but I'll elide that.
Essentially, 1981 marked the end of the heritage Advent lineage.
The fried-egg and ferro-fluid tweeters as well as the stamped frame woofer were dropped from production in 1981. (The Smaller Advent
had been discontinued some time before, in favor of the newer Advent/1, 2 & 3). All of the Advent badged speakers you named which
were sold in the 80's were wholly Jensen designed, and all the components were Jensen. They were all, to say the least, unremarkable
speakers. Jensen reincarnated the original Advent Large in 1994 as
the 25th Anniversary Limited Edition. It had the stamped frame woofer
of the (old) New Advent Large and a remanufactured black 1" soft-dome
square-magnet tweeter. It wasn't quite a match for Henry's cloth- annulus 1.75" KLH-6 style tweeter. Times had changed. and the speaker
had a short run.
The current Audiovox/Advent products bear no lineage with either the 80's Jensen speakers or the 70's Advent Corp. speakers, as you note.
They look like rebadged Recoton speakers to me.
Stuart Balfour
>
>There are many possible speakers that you may be referring to.
>In the event you are not up-to-date on the Advent chronology
>let me give a quick overview. The Henry Kloss founded Advent
>lasted for years after he left sometime in 1974. The company
>went bankrupt around 1980.
>
>The name Advent was then bought by Jensen who continued to
>manufacture many models of Advent (the Laureate, Heritage,
>Prodigy, Prodigy Tower I & II, Legacy I, II, III, Maestro
>and some of the smaller models I won't detail here). These
>were, generally, solid MDF painted black with Pecan wood tops
>and kick plates or even entire front panels. Jensen was
>eventually bought by Esmark corp and produced some real trash
>under the Advent name but looking much as the Jensen models.
>
>At some point the Advent name became the property of Recoton,
>who is currently producing some matal & rubber, futuristic
>looking things called Advents but which bear absolutely
>nothing in common with any of the iterations before them.
>
>I hope this rather long dissertation has been helpful.
>
>Kent
>
I'll refine and fill in your chronology, for future reference.
Henry Kloss was at Advent in 1975 when the first prototypes of the
stamped aluminum frame woofer were produced, and he approved them for production. That was early 1975. That year, Advent posted a loss,
and was recapitalized with new investors. Henry was thereafter
excluded from product determination decisions - that was late in
1975. Henry dissociated himself from the company after that to pursue
private video projects that led in 1977 to the founding of Kloss
Video Corp. It doesn't appear that quitting Advent Corp. was a
clean or sudden break. Andy Kotsatos, the designer of the Smaller
Advent, remained with the company another couple of years, and was
responsible for the design of the New Advent in 1976/7. The speaker
foundered among profligate competition.
Advent declared bankruptcy reorganization in Mar. 1981 and entered into an agreement to be acquired by Kloss Video. That fell through,
and the bankruptcy petition was amended to liquidation later that year. International Jensen was an autonomous unit of the Esmark Corp.
in 1982 when Jensen acquired the assets of Advent out of bankruptcy
The Jensen unit itself went bankrupt in 1995, and was acquired by Recoton. There is further history with Thomson Electronics and
Audiovox, but I'll elide that.
Essentially, 1981 marked the end of the heritage Advent lineage.
The fried-egg and ferro-fluid tweeters as well as the stamped frame woofer were dropped from production in 1981. (The Smaller Advent
had been discontinued some time before, in favor of the newer Advent/1, 2 & 3). All of the Advent badged speakers you named which
were sold in the 80's were wholly Jensen designed, and all the components were Jensen. They were all, to say the least, unremarkable
speakers. Jensen reincarnated the original Advent Large in 1994 as
the 25th Anniversary Limited Edition. It had the stamped frame woofer
of the (old) New Advent Large and a remanufactured black 1" soft-dome
square-magnet tweeter. It wasn't quite a match for Henry's cloth- annulus 1.75" KLH-6 style tweeter. Times had changed. and the speaker
had a short run.
The current Audiovox/Advent products bear no lineage with either the 80's Jensen speakers or the 70's Advent Corp. speakers, as you note.
They look like rebadged Recoton speakers to me.
Stuart Balfour
#65
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Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:36 PM
thanks so much Stormy for your detailed and helpful reply. i think i will try my hand at refoaming, and I had heard of NHT but didn't realize they utilized acoustic suspension. Looking forward to checking the links. thanks again.
derek
derek
#66
jackfish
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Posted 26 January 2007 - 08:18 PM
The Advent/1 is an 8 Ohm speaker. I would try to match all your speakers to 8 Ohms if some are selectable. Then with your Niles SS-6 if you are using more than 2 pairs of speakers just push in the impedence magnification button (marked PROTECTION).
#67
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Posted 26 January 2007 - 05:19 AM
Kent-
I am adding some speakers to other rooms in the house using a Niles ss-6 speaker selector, and am wondering what the impedance of the Advent/1 speaker is? If the second set of speakers are selectable between 4 and 8 ohms which should I select to get the most from each pair of speakers? Thanks, the newbie
I am adding some speakers to other rooms in the house using a Niles ss-6 speaker selector, and am wondering what the impedance of the Advent/1 speaker is? If the second set of speakers are selectable between 4 and 8 ohms which should I select to get the most from each pair of speakers? Thanks, the newbie
#68
Stormy2021
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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:40 AM
I'm sure others will add their 2 cents too so until then...
1) About the only thing on a woofer that truly seems to wear out is the surround (foam types that is) and i've never seen the cone itself break down except from outside causes like water damage or physical abuse (babies, pets, etc).
2) in 1997 when I ordered woofers from Advent for my 14 year old Advent "Babys" (I didn't know about refoaming kits back then) the woofers I received were *almost* the same though the cone material was not as felt-like as the originals.
I would be a little wary of "upgraded" woofers - a good speaker consists of a carefully integrated woofer/tweeter/crossover system and many times (in a woofers' case) a tweeter or especially the crossover is designed to make up for a specific deficiency in the woofer. So if a different woofer is used, the tweeter's/crossover's "settings" so to speak will not fit well and the speaker system's overall sound could be audibly affected.
3) YES!
If the surround is falling apart this could cause the cone to become misaligned and the voice coil (the unseen electrical part pushing the cone) could scrape against the internal magnet structure and permanently damage the coil, rendering the woofer useless & unrepairable.
The surround supports the outer edge of the cone and also provides a specific amount of compliance to allow the cone to move the desired distance back & forth with a specific amount of power. If the replacement surround is much too soft or much too stiff, bass output will be audibly affected.
4) I sold them for three years at Best Buy and I liked their sound & consider them to be worth repairing. And I agree that they are very attractive speakers. We sold many of them almost for that one reason alone.
Acoustic-suspension is very rare these days. Off the top of my head the only company that uses this design in most of their speakers and is *not* a tiny boutique manufacturer (i.e. relatively easy to find so you can audition them) AND has a great rep is NHT ("Now Hear This"):
www.nhthifi.com
Any company that uses yodeling on their front page can't be all bad! :^)
I would love to own a pair of their Classic Four floorstanders for a stereo-only/no subwoofer music system I am trying to put together.
This company was also affected by Recoton's mismanagement but they survived. Heres' a story about that which includes a link to a story about NHT's cool/quirky founder, Ken Kantor:
http://www.stereophi...news/102405nht/
1) About the only thing on a woofer that truly seems to wear out is the surround (foam types that is) and i've never seen the cone itself break down except from outside causes like water damage or physical abuse (babies, pets, etc).
2) in 1997 when I ordered woofers from Advent for my 14 year old Advent "Babys" (I didn't know about refoaming kits back then) the woofers I received were *almost* the same though the cone material was not as felt-like as the originals.
I would be a little wary of "upgraded" woofers - a good speaker consists of a carefully integrated woofer/tweeter/crossover system and many times (in a woofers' case) a tweeter or especially the crossover is designed to make up for a specific deficiency in the woofer. So if a different woofer is used, the tweeter's/crossover's "settings" so to speak will not fit well and the speaker system's overall sound could be audibly affected.
3) YES!
If the surround is falling apart this could cause the cone to become misaligned and the voice coil (the unseen electrical part pushing the cone) could scrape against the internal magnet structure and permanently damage the coil, rendering the woofer useless & unrepairable.
The surround supports the outer edge of the cone and also provides a specific amount of compliance to allow the cone to move the desired distance back & forth with a specific amount of power. If the replacement surround is much too soft or much too stiff, bass output will be audibly affected.
4) I sold them for three years at Best Buy and I liked their sound & consider them to be worth repairing. And I agree that they are very attractive speakers. We sold many of them almost for that one reason alone.
Acoustic-suspension is very rare these days. Off the top of my head the only company that uses this design in most of their speakers and is *not* a tiny boutique manufacturer (i.e. relatively easy to find so you can audition them) AND has a great rep is NHT ("Now Hear This"):
www.nhthifi.com
Any company that uses yodeling on their front page can't be all bad! :^)
I would love to own a pair of their Classic Four floorstanders for a stereo-only/no subwoofer music system I am trying to put together.
This company was also affected by Recoton's mismanagement but they survived. Heres' a story about that which includes a link to a story about NHT's cool/quirky founder, Ken Kantor:
http://www.stereophi...news/102405nht/
#69
Guest_16th and mission_*
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:25 PM
Hello to all:
I am new to this forum - I just found it today. I searched the forum before I decided to post my question and I found a similar post from 2002 and it had not been answered, so I thought there would be no harm in posting a similar question in hopes that somewhere here could help me out with some information.
I have a pair of Advent Laureates that I purchased used in 1993 (serial # 3046514072). I really like these speakers because I think they sound lovely, though I'm hardly an expert. I do prefer acoustic suspension designs because I prefer bass response that is tight and accurate and not overwhelming, and I've always preferred two-way over three-way speaker configurations. These speakers have served well but about 10 years ago the rubber surround started separating from the cones (my limited research has revealed this to be a common problem). At that time, I was able to reattach the surrounds with glue. That worked for a couple of years but now the surround itself is not only detached but deteriorating. I've found refoam kits on ebay but wondered if they were close enough to factory specs as to not affect the quality of sound. Also, I wonder:
1) Should I expect these woofers to last this long? Am I wasting time to re-foam them? They seem like they are in fine condition otherwise but I'm no expert. How long can you expect a paper cone to last before the wear and tear of repeated sound reproduction cause the material itself to break down?
2) Is there a viable replacement woofer available? I've seen supposed "upgrades" available online with more durable and advanced materials but I'm wary that they may not be as well-suited to the cabinet design and crossover wiring as the originals.
3) Am I damaging the woofers to use them while the surrounds are in such condition? What is the exact function(s) of the surrounds? (forgive my ignorance).
4) I know these were manufactured after Henry Kloss left Advent and it had been acquired by Jensen, but is it the general consensus that these are decent speakers that are worth repairing and holding on to? They seem to me to be very well-made. I suspected that the front and top of the cabinets were a veneer over particle board and was surprised to find out today when I removed one of the woofers that the front board is indeed solid wood throughout. I've heard that dense particle board is probably a better material for speaker building, but I was impressed nonetheless that they used real wood. I think these speakers are beautiful, and hope I can get many more years of use out of them. I have a feeling I couldn't afford modern day replacements to match them in quality and styling. Is there even a two-way acoustic suspension home speaker being manufactured by anyone?
Sorry for a long-winded post, but any help and info. is much appreciated.
thanks!
derek
I am new to this forum - I just found it today. I searched the forum before I decided to post my question and I found a similar post from 2002 and it had not been answered, so I thought there would be no harm in posting a similar question in hopes that somewhere here could help me out with some information.
I have a pair of Advent Laureates that I purchased used in 1993 (serial # 3046514072). I really like these speakers because I think they sound lovely, though I'm hardly an expert. I do prefer acoustic suspension designs because I prefer bass response that is tight and accurate and not overwhelming, and I've always preferred two-way over three-way speaker configurations. These speakers have served well but about 10 years ago the rubber surround started separating from the cones (my limited research has revealed this to be a common problem). At that time, I was able to reattach the surrounds with glue. That worked for a couple of years but now the surround itself is not only detached but deteriorating. I've found refoam kits on ebay but wondered if they were close enough to factory specs as to not affect the quality of sound. Also, I wonder:
1) Should I expect these woofers to last this long? Am I wasting time to re-foam them? They seem like they are in fine condition otherwise but I'm no expert. How long can you expect a paper cone to last before the wear and tear of repeated sound reproduction cause the material itself to break down?
2) Is there a viable replacement woofer available? I've seen supposed "upgrades" available online with more durable and advanced materials but I'm wary that they may not be as well-suited to the cabinet design and crossover wiring as the originals.
3) Am I damaging the woofers to use them while the surrounds are in such condition? What is the exact function(s) of the surrounds? (forgive my ignorance).
4) I know these were manufactured after Henry Kloss left Advent and it had been acquired by Jensen, but is it the general consensus that these are decent speakers that are worth repairing and holding on to? They seem to me to be very well-made. I suspected that the front and top of the cabinets were a veneer over particle board and was surprised to find out today when I removed one of the woofers that the front board is indeed solid wood throughout. I've heard that dense particle board is probably a better material for speaker building, but I was impressed nonetheless that they used real wood. I think these speakers are beautiful, and hope I can get many more years of use out of them. I have a feeling I couldn't afford modern day replacements to match them in quality and styling. Is there even a two-way acoustic suspension home speaker being manufactured by anyone?
Sorry for a long-winded post, but any help and info. is much appreciated.
thanks!
derek
#70
Stormy2021
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:09 AM
btw: Recoton declared bankruptsy several years ago and Audiovox bought the Advent AND Acoustic Research names at that time (and Jensen too).
http://www.audiovox....vlet/advent.jsp
http://www.audiovox..../servlet/ar.jsp
AR isn't *total* junk IMO, but bears no resemblance to its former self; according to their site Advent has been reduced to selling mobile video gear. :^( Those weird looking home speakers, supposedly rebadged speakers from a German manufacturer, AFAIK aren't on their site anymore.
As bad as sales for home audio components have been the past few years, as much as part of me hopes, I can't see Audiovox devoting any time/money to resurrecting even a respected name like Advent:
1) only people @35 years old and older will even know what Advent was all about;
2) the biggest group of listeners/buyers of music are people younger than @25;
and (here's the clincher)
3) from what I've seen, most people under 25 think anything larger than an iPod is "old-fashioned". I think if they were shown a typical console stereo system from the 1960s, they would need a jolt of oxygen to stay conscious: "Oh....my.....gawd......that thing is HUGE!!" :^)
http://www.audiovox....vlet/advent.jsp
http://www.audiovox..../servlet/ar.jsp
AR isn't *total* junk IMO, but bears no resemblance to its former self; according to their site Advent has been reduced to selling mobile video gear. :^( Those weird looking home speakers, supposedly rebadged speakers from a German manufacturer, AFAIK aren't on their site anymore.
As bad as sales for home audio components have been the past few years, as much as part of me hopes, I can't see Audiovox devoting any time/money to resurrecting even a respected name like Advent:
1) only people @35 years old and older will even know what Advent was all about;
2) the biggest group of listeners/buyers of music are people younger than @25;
and (here's the clincher)
3) from what I've seen, most people under 25 think anything larger than an iPod is "old-fashioned". I think if they were shown a typical console stereo system from the 1960s, they would need a jolt of oxygen to stay conscious: "Oh....my.....gawd......that thing is HUGE!!" :^)
#71
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 04:39 AM
Hi,
PMJI, but I've found that wetting the dust caps first then applying vacuum cleaner suction straight from the hose in small steps sometimes works.
If it makes matters worse, sue someone else - lol
Kent
PMJI, but I've found that wetting the dust caps first then applying vacuum cleaner suction straight from the hose in small steps sometimes works.
If it makes matters worse, sue someone else - lol
Kent
#72
Guest_bockstur_*
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:56 AM
How did you pop out the compressed dust caps. I tried to use suction from syringe, vacuum cleaner and neither worked. How did you do it?
#73
Carlspeak
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Posted 01 July 2009 - 01:13 PM
Silly Kent :^)
If they are the original Advents (with masonite woofer surround) they would not have a 13uF capacitor in them but rather, either 2 16 uFs or 1 16uf and 1 8uF. The first is the series capacitor for the tweeter and the second is the resistor bypass capacitor when the switch is in the extended position (the cap. lets more high frequency energy to the tweeter).
The 2 16 uF version is the earlier one used until about the middle of 1975 and then they switched to the 16/8 uF version. The resistor was also changed along the way from 4 ohms originally to 3 ohms sometime in the early seventies.
The 8uF cap. holds back more of the lower upper frequencies and the tweeter doesn't have to work as hard to reproduce these freqs. thus maybe smoothening out the response or perceived response.
Also, these are 2 way crossovers, not 3 (only 2 drivers).
All of my Advents have the later configuration, having all been built in 1975 or 1976 so I have never heard (except for in the early seventies-too long ago to remember) the earlier ones. I know Jerry (BoldEagle in the forums) likes the later version and has changed his to this config.
This harshness thing seems to be something that some claim bothers them and others don't really experience it. I, myself, don't think they sound harsh (unless the source is harsh).
I would check out the crossovers and make sure everything is OK there. There is a schematic available in the library section of this site and you can get the values of the components from it.
Ask more any time.
Doug
Doug/anybody: could you give us a rough range of ser. No's for the 16/16/3 types and the 16/8/3 types?
Thanks,
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC!
Carl
Carl's Custom Loudspeakers
Carl
Carl's Custom Loudspeakers
#74
Doug G.
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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:33 PM
I don't know how much help I'm going to be but my lowest serial number Advent with the 16/8/3 combination is a walnut and it is #187986 built on August 29, 1975.
I don't know exactly when the changeover was but maybe from serial number 150,000 and higher are 16/8/3?
My utilities are all later and all are 16/8/3. I believe this was the combination until the end of production of the original Advent Loudspeaker.
I have also noticed that there was a change on the black tape on the tweeters that may correspond to the electrical changes. Earlier tweeters have the tape going all the way across the masonite square and on the later ones, it stops and is cut off straight before it gets to the left edge.
I don't mean, of course, that the tweeters are different. Just that this may have been a simultaneaous change with the electrical changes.
Doug
I don't know exactly when the changeover was but maybe from serial number 150,000 and higher are 16/8/3?
My utilities are all later and all are 16/8/3. I believe this was the combination until the end of production of the original Advent Loudspeaker.
I have also noticed that there was a change on the black tape on the tweeters that may correspond to the electrical changes. Earlier tweeters have the tape going all the way across the masonite square and on the later ones, it stops and is cut off straight before it gets to the left edge.
I don't mean, of course, that the tweeters are different. Just that this may have been a simultaneaous change with the electrical changes.
Doug
#75
randy
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 12:25 PM
i own a pair of advent millennium speakers. they are about 3 ft tall with 2 identical speakers about 8-10 inches across and a tweeter. there is a sticker on the back with the company name, international jensen, adv 109501 and a serial number. no model number or description about the speaker. because they say millennium on them i'm guessing i bought these around the year 2000. but i know nothing else. does anyone know anything about these speakers? like what they are rated at?
#76
pbj44
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:31 PM
Hi Doug,
I am looking for the specs for the Advent Mini speaker. There does not seem to be any information generally available. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Regards,
PJ
I am looking for the specs for the Advent Mini speaker. There does not seem to be any information generally available. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Regards,
PJ
#77
Doug G.
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Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:17 PM
Hi PJ,
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the minis.
Doug
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the minis.
Doug
#78
Mr. Bubbles
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Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:29 PM
anybody here that really know their Advents, could you please read my post about which model Advents could I have had, and respond with any info you may have. Thanks.
#79
Tesla43
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Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:59 AM
Hello and thank you for reading. I have a pair of large advents, I believe they are from around 1975 - 1977 the tweeter is orange with a mesh grill and a square metal mounting plate, the woofer is mounted near center of the encloser, surrounds look good no holes or tears, i noticed if i wire them with the positive on the 0 connector and the negative on the 8 ohm connector they seem warmer and a little more bass, but the highs roll off a little too soon, but if i wire them the other way they seem a bit harsh and lose quite a bit of the warmth and bass. can you tell me which is the proper way to wire them?? when flipping the switch on back, out of the normal position i seem to lose a lot of the tweeter like its almost completely off and then switching to extended makes it even harsher. also there is a fuse mounted on the outside of the back of the speaker, but i havent seen that on other advent pics that i have looked at online. any advice on making them sound better? they dont crackle or buzz or anything and they can go pretty loud. thank you in advance.
#80
Jo6pak
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Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:25 PM
anybody know of a 'suitable' (or should i say 'acceptable'), modern (dome/etc) replacement TWEETER for the SMALLER advent? THANKS!
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