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#1 craig

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:07 PM

Hi i saw a pair of ar2ax speakers at a resale shop, they say they are tested and good and they want 100 bucks for them. Is this a good deal if im looking to resell them ? the outsides look in good condition with covers still on them.

#2 dxho

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:10 PM

auction sites' history is a good way to check current desirability, at least for non-obscure items. Local demand may be more or less. At any rate, 2ax speakers are fairly popular.

#3 craig

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:35 AM

I ended up buying them, talked them down to 70 bucks for the pair AR2ax. Anyway these are not like buying dynaco A25s when i got the AR's home and took off the covers the drivers need refoaming, and the tweeter is totally out on one channel, the other channel sounds insanely nice in the highs, i can see why they were popular but i think they are too much work for me to take on, not sure weather to try to get them rehabbed for myself or just sell them..... I still really like the dynaco A25's but it seems the AR's highs are cleaner and sweeter. Bass acts like it wants to be really nice but falls short due to re cone issue, its hard to compare them to the A25's due to the fact the A25s i have don't need reconing and have had the cap and tweeter wire replaced.

#4 craig

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:49 AM

omg the AR 2Ax though they are shot they are impressing me, such perfect highs and mids on one side, i really wonder what they would sound like rehabbed, now i see why all of you love AR so much im sure they would sound a ton better rehabbed

#5 dxho

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:13 AM

New surrounds aren't all that difficult, if you have the tools you need. You would probably get all your money back and more, if you decided to sell.

#6 craig

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:23 AM

i'v never re coned a speaker, what tools would i need ? how hard is it ? Also the tweeter is has no output on one channel, i was told it could be a bad pot or something. Is that hard to fix ? I'v noticed the condition is very good on them other then the 2 woofers that need new surrounds, some of the ones on ebay had cracked up mids the mids on mine look very nice. Some of the ones being sold on ebay have a buy it now price (as is), but no bids. ( ranging from $225-400) When you said i could make my money back and a bit more did you mean as they are now ? or rehabbed ? And how much more money are they worth rehabbed ? vs as is ? I love the dynaco A25's but i fear if i rehab these i will fall in love with them as well, i don't have the money to rehab them unless i did it myself and i'm not a tech just a fan. Here's a pic of them. forgive the bad x mas tree bulb lighting i tried to light one of them up more.

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  • AR speakers 006.jpg
  • AR speakers 002.jpg
  • AR speakers 003.jpg


#7 michiganpat

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 02:03 PM

you don't need to RE CONE the woofer, just RE FOAM. look up Msound on ebay, they have the proper foams...the tools you need are razor blades, maybe a little laquer thinner, and patience. shouldn't be more than about $25 for new foams. AR2ax tweets in working order can be a bit pricey. there is a mod using a hivi tweet as a replacement, total cost to replace both is about $50 if you buy them from parts express or madisound. might be able to get that much out of the one good tweet if you sell it on ebay.

#8 craig

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:33 AM

So about 50 bucks for an original tweeter ? I assume the original tweeter is better then the mod you mentioned ? i don't really know how good the bass on them are yet until the they are re foamed. but i like the highs and mids the one tweeter gives quite an amazing range. Is using foam important ? i noticed they have no dampened port so i assume the foam acted as one or is that a silly question ? Do i have to remove the dust cover to re foam and shimmy the voice coil ? I was looking on youtube and much debate over weather to do that or not. If the tweeter is not outputting on one side how likely is it the tweeter is bad vs the crossover is not sending a signal ? thanks guys you're great

#9 HarryM

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

I don't know anything about the tweeters but I can tell you what I know about refoaming.I just finished my second refoam job ever on my AR-91's.The hardest part is waiting for the glue to dry.I did practice on my AR-25 woofers because I wanted to be sure I would be able to do the AR-91's with out messing them up.The 25's I didn't shim and they went ok.The 91's I removed the dust cover and shimmed,mostly because when I pushed the cone in it made alot of noise and I couldn't get them to not make noise when pushing on them.So I didn't want to take a chance and not get everything lined up.It's not that hard to do if your careful and shimming is far safer.Email MSound which is where I got my surrounds from.John is very helpful and will make sure you get everything you need.

#10 JKent

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:37 PM

Hi Craig
Here is MSound's how-to for refoaming speakers.
http://www.citlink.net/~msound/refoam/
It takes some patience and a steady hand but it is NOT difficult. As mentioned, John is very helpful. His kits are very complete--right down to alcohol swabs. There is a link to his ebay store on the bottom of the page. Please note there are 2 different replacement foams, one of which he describes as "improved." I'd take his word on that.

Regarding your tweeters, the problem may very well be the pots and not the tweeters. If you read the AR3a restoration guide, pinned to the beginning of the AR section, it will tell you how to clean the pots or (better, IMHO), replace them with $5 L-pads.

If you do have a bad tweet, the HiVi replacement suggested is excellent. But is it "better"? That's a matter for debate. The HiVi is a modern design with ferrofluid cooling. It sounds good and is rugged, so it will stand up to loud music. The original was (is?) and excellent tweeter, known for its smoothness and dispersion. But it's old and does not age well.

So, purists will insist on original tweeters but they are reaching the end of their useful lifespans and even if you find a working used one, it could be dicey. My bias is in favor of the HiVi tweets and the new L-pads. YMMV.

Kent
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#11 craig

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:11 AM

thanks so much kent great link , ill study it. I noticed it said in better repairs the dust cap is replaced so the shimmy's can be used, this is the part that scares me because i'v never done it. Do the kits come with dust caps that will fit the AR2ax ? are the dust caps inverted on that speaker model or where mine pushed in somehow ? will the kits have the right fit and a paper cover close to the original ? Can i replace the surrounds without using the shimmy's ? what effect will that have ?

#12 JKent

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

Hi Craig
As you know, there are differences of opinion on shims, but I go with MSound's advice and do the shimming. Read page 2 of his instructions. There is a topic, Speaker Clearances & Why We MUST Use Shims. Note that there are about a dozen pages and 28 photos in those instructions. Very thorough. And he sends a printed copy of the instructions with the kit.
The dust caps are not hard to remove--just use an x-acto knife or razor blade and follow the instructions. The kit comes with new, slightly larger caps. And no--they are not inverted, so yours are pushed in and that's more reason to replace them.

It's not hard. I like to say that if you ever built a plastic model you can refoam a speaker (assuming the model turned out looking good--not all glopped up with glue). Give it a try. My first re-foam project was a pair of AR2ax's. I bought the MSound kit and followed the step-by-step instructions to the letter and the job came out perfect. Photos of that project are here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/original_models_1954-1974/original_models_pictures/ar-2ax_pictures_from_jkent/ OTOH if you are really nervous about it, send the woofers to a pro such as Millersound in Pennsylvania or Carl's Custom Loudspeakers in Connecticut, or contact MSound. He also does refoaming. The cost is probably about $70 to have a pro do it, plus the 2-way shipping. It will be done right and they will be tested before they're returned to you.
Kent
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#13 Tom H.

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:05 PM

I was faced with this same dilemma a few months back with my AR-2AX restoration. I found original used tweeters on e-bay and have been happy with the result. They run $30-$50 each if you are patient. Unless you are planning on playing these speakers very loud they should hold up OK.

I have also bought re-foam kits from MSound. He puts together a great kit and is very helpful. I'm a believer in shimming. It ensures that the coil is not only going to not rub but that it is aligned properly as it moves. (I hope that sentence made some sense!)

#14 craig

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:38 PM

ah thanks for the advice kent and tom, i thought they might be pushed in but i was not sure , im a little nervous to mess with the voice coil and shims but maybe its easier then i think it is. I almost didn't buy them knowing i usually search for dynaco A25 and A35 because i don't have to re foam them, but for 70 bucks i just couldn't pass on them reading everything about them on here, even though they need work the one channel has a good tweeter, quite amazing highs, smoother highs then my bws give with a very nice range. i was told the other tweeter though not working may be just the crossover not sending a signal. In time i will find out, i'll keep you posted on my progress with them, if i get them rehabbed i can compare them to my A25's maybe they will give them a run for their money.

#15 JKent

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:04 PM

im a little nervous to mess with the voice coil and shims but maybe its easier then i think it is.

There is nothing to be nervous about if you can handle an x-acto knife. Follow the instructions. Slice the cap off then cut the shims into strips and slip them between the VC and pole piece. There is enough clearance that it's no problem. Insert them at the 12 o'clock position, then 6, then 9, then 3, as shown in the attached photo. The fit should be snug enough that you can position the cone up & down and the friction will hold it. When all done, remove the shims and vacuum, then glue on the new cap. Just follow the instructions. No biggie.

i was told the other tweeter though not working may be just the crossover not sending a signal.

Yes. First things first. You can test the tweet of course, but you absolutely should replace the old wax capacitor with new film caps--one 6uF and one 4uF per speaker. Then check the pots. They are probably cruddy. Many people have success cleaning them and coating with dielectric grease, but IMHO an L-pad is much better (2 per speaker). They will be brand new and will not corrode. They cost about $5 each from Parts Express.

If you do need tweeters, be aware that some were "front wired" like mine (in photo) and some were "back wired." If you get the Hi-Vi replacements you should buy 2, and it is no problem using them as-is (back wired). You "can" modify them for front wiring if you want, but cross that bridge when you get to it.

Kent

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J. Kent Hollingsworth

#16 michiganpat

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:10 PM

FWIW, I've refoamed 3 pairs of AR woofs (1 pair of 2ax 10", 2 pair of AR18 8"), smaller advents, becker 12" and realistic mach 1 15"...in all cases I've had good luck not shimming, but using a 30 hz test tone to center the cone as I've glued the foam to the basket, after gluing the foam to the cone the night before and letting it dry completely.

#17 RoyC

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:38 PM

Shimming is almost always the best way to go. Not only is it helpful for centering the voice coil, but the friction of the shims in the gap allows the cone to be set at different heights for much easier gluing. This is particularly helpful with AR woofers where the cone rests at a lower level than the basket rim. Bill at Millersound, as well as a number of other pros I know, all recommend shimming.

The original dust cap can often be retained by simply slicing around its perimeter with an exacto knife, and flapping it back for shimming. When the re-foam is complete, glue it back down.

Roy
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#18 craig

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

Thanks so much guys, Replacing the switches for L pads is that also easy ?




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